The Science of Twilight

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pubesy
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by pubesy »

Stephenie Meyer wrote:My reasoning was, why should the sun burn them? That seemed like a very mystical kind of thing, and my vampires are more science than magic to me (whereas my werewolves are more magic than science)
she never said vampires ARE science, just that IN HER opinion, they were more on the scientific side than the magical side. (maybe she only has a very basic understanding of science :? ;) )

Personally, i think she should have inserted the term "logic" rather than "science."

but i agree - no one picks at the phasing of werewolves - because they are seen as "magical."

I think what she meant is - if you only take a superficial view of the vampire, it may seem possible that they really do exist. obviously, if you delve a bit deeper, plot holes the size of craters emerge.

a bit like the theory of Intelligent design. while people chose to believe this theory (just like people chose to believe evolution), Evolution is a science - it can be tested, experimented and has evidence - thus can be "proved" (even though nothing is ever proved certain in science) or disproved, based on results of experimentation. However ID cannot be classified as science because it cannot be proved or disproved based on experimentation- just believed.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by bite_me »

I think with the thing about blood, maybe it's released from somewhere really weird, like a gas from their eyeballs or ears or something (i'm just throwing together on-the-spot theories here) or it's released where the sweat glands in a human are, in a gas or liquid form.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by Amethyst1 »

Pubesy, i don't really see what you're trying to prove with that since that works on humans, not vampires. but i'll explain HOW at least, i see the situation.

For me, the blood that enters their body is sort of the same with the food that enters our body. The food has fats that are stored in our body and the longer the days we don't eat ANYTHING at all, these fats are gone. to me, analogically. it's the same thing with the vampires. the blood enters their body, and the venom evaporates it in a matter of a week or 2.
does that make sense? i hope so.
When we lose weight or these fats are burned from our body, is there waste that comes out? Waste, is what our body doesn't need, and that's what the vacules in cells store. till they are out of our body. SINCE the vampires USE it up ALL (the blood) it creates no waste adding to the fact that their organs do not work. it's just the venom, it's too strong (just like the brown contacts in BD), it evaporates everything. that's how i see it, i don't expect you to agree with me or anything.

Pubesy, i actaully think you're right. SM proberly knows the basic things of science. Do you guys know Benjamin's power. he is able to manipulate real 'elements' GR...it bugs me so much. because water, fire, wind are NOT elements. they are compounds. water is a mixture of Hydrogen and oxygen, wind is a mix of oxgen and other stuff and fire is a mix as well. so it really buged me that she used the word 'elements'
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by navarre »

If this has not been broached, I would like to ask what anyone/everyone thinks of the vampiric bloodlines.
I find it facinating that when Edward told Charlie that Carlisle was a grandfather to, that basically this was true.

It's my understanding going on other vampire mythos, that once a vampire 'sires/creates' another vampire, then the human DNA of the newborn is obliterated and vampire DNA replaces the human DNA. The newborn becomes part of his/her sire's bloodline(vampirically speaking). I also allude to the fact that when Edward was trying to explain Renesmee's birth to Tanya & Co. in BD, he stated "I am her father, not her creator - her biological father" which was true and when Bella and the Cullens were out trying to find Alice & Jasper, she states that " Carlise created Edward, Esmee, Rosalie & Emmett and Edward created me - we were related by blood & venom"

That tells me that Edward and Bella are 'doubly' related to Renesmee and Carlise is, in effect, Renesmee's grandfather(vampirically). I'm sure there is much more that I've missed, but I thought it was pretty cool to speculate on this subject. :)
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by debussygirl »

malaz wrote:
Pubesy, i actaully think you're right. SM proberly knows the basic things of science. Do you guys know Benjamin's power. he is able to manipulate real 'elements' GR...it bugs me so much. because water, fire, wind are NOT elements. they are compounds. water is a mixture of Hydrogen and oxygen, wind is a mix of oxgen and other stuff and fire is a mix as well. so it really buged me that she used the word 'elements'
The word "element" has many different meanings. dictionary.com has 14. This is one of their definitions:
"one of the substances, usually earth, water, air, and fire, formerly regarded as constituting the material universe."
Therefore, SM did use the word "element" correctly in BD.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by bite_me »

debussygirl wrote:
malaz wrote:
Pubesy, i actaully think you're right. SM proberly knows the basic things of science. Do you guys know Benjamin's power. he is able to manipulate real 'elements' GR...it bugs me so much. because water, fire, wind are NOT elements. they are compounds. water is a mixture of Hydrogen and oxygen, wind is a mix of oxgen and other stuff and fire is a mix as well. so it really buged me that she used the word 'elements'
The word "element" has many different meanings. dictionary.com has 14. This is one of their definitions:
"one of the substances, usually earth, water, air, and fire, formerly regarded as constituting the material universe."
Therefore, SM did use the word "element" correctly in BD.
so she just wasnt using the word like they do in science?
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pubesy
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by pubesy »

malaz wrote:Pubesy, i don't really see what you're trying to prove with that since that works on humans,
I am not trying to PROVE anything, malaz. and i am not just relating vampires to humans.
For me, the blood that enters their body is sort of the same with the food that enters our body. The food has fats that are stored in our body and the longer the days we don't eat ANYTHING at all, these fats are gone. to me, analogically. it's the same thing with the vampires. the blood enters their body, and the venom evaporates it in a matter of a week or 2.
fat just does not "disappear" or "evaporate" once it has been used as energy in the human (or any living being) body. Fat is broken down and removed from the body once it has been metabolized. When we (as living beings) eat in excess we store fat, when we do not eat enough, we break down these fat stores, metabolise them and eliminate them from our body (thus losing weight). since A vampire's body does not and cannot change, not do vampires excrete waste, the blood seems to "disappear" which is scientifically implausible.
When we lose weight or these fats are burned from our body, is there waste that comes out?
Yes there is, it is called metabolic waste. The excess nitrogen, sulphites, ammonia, CO2 etc are converted to urea and excreted as urine, or exhaled, lost in sweat etc. Since vampired do not need/or cannot exhale, pee, poo, sweat, shead tears etc, they cannot remove waste material from their body.
Waste, is what our body doesn't need, and that's what the vacuoles in cells store. till they are out of our body. SINCE the vampires USE it up ALL (the blood) it creates no waste adding to the fact that their organs do not work. it's just the venom, it's too strong (just like the brown contacts in BD), it evaporates everything.

vacuoles only store until they can be removed from the cell, once they are removed from the cell, the products the vacuoles store are transported in the blood to the kidney where the waste is removed in the urine. Since vampires do not have working kidneys, this cannot happen.

Even if the vampires (for arguments sake) DID in fact use pure blood as energy from their body (and did not have to break the blood down into smaller compounds initially in order for it to be small enough to travel into the vampire's "cells"), the blood would still have to be "metabolised" "broken down" or "converted" in some form, in order to be transferred from chemical energy into kinetic energy. Thus there would be waste products from this process of energy conversion.

You mention evaporation - even with evaporation things do not disappear. the liquid turns into a gas and enters the atmosphere. but you can't even use this as an argument for vampires - because they cannot sweat, hence produce liquid to be evaporated!


even if you apply this theory into NONLIVING objects, say, a coal fire station.

energy does not just "magically" appear from coal. the coal is "broken down" and carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, water and other products are released into the atmosphere as waste products (thus global warming).

even with a water turbine - the energy does not magically appear, nor does the water disappear - the water moves a wheel with the pressure - the pressure then generates kinetic energy and is then transformed into electricity. no water disappears in the process.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by debussygirl »

bite_me wrote:
debussygirl wrote:
malaz wrote:
Pubesy, i actaully think
you're right. SM proberly knows the basic things of science. Do you
guys know Benjamin's power. he is able to manipulate real 'elements'
GR...it bugs me so much. because water, fire, wind are NOT elements.
they are compounds. water is a mixture of Hydrogen and oxygen, wind is
a mix of oxgen and other stuff and fire is a mix as well. so it really
buged me that she used the word 'elements'
The word "element" has many different meanings. dictionary.com has 14. This is one of their definitions:
"one of the substances, usually earth, water, air, and fire, formerly regarded as constituting the material universe."
Therefore, SM did use the word "element" correctly in BD.
so she just wasnt using the word like they do in science?
Nope, she wasn't using it like the periodic table of elements, she was using it as another definition that I stated in my post above.
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by EdwardNJessi »

debussygirl wrote:So if you were around before the boards crashed, you may or may not know that I was thoroughly confused about how a 25-chromosone vampire could have a normal child with a 23-chromosone human. Well, I did my research this time other than relying on my limited public school knowledge of it, and I found that this could happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mules
In the first paragraph you read that donkeys have 62 chromosones, horses have 64. But they can reproduce and make a mule. I still don't get it, but it can happen. Which also brings up an interesting point. Not all mules are sterile. Some female mules can reproduce with purebred horses or donkeys. It's the same with a liger. Here's the site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger
So maybe Renesmee could have children with Jacob. Hmmm...

Oh wow. I just opened this thread for the first time and you completely blew my mind with this response. haha. You know...when I was reading the story, I didn't think about the science of Twilight, but now that I have time to digest everything, a lot of questions came up. The biggest question I have is "How is Renesmee's life going to unfold?" I really wish I could have learned a LOT more about her. And, "If Bella could get pregnant, then obviously Edward's reproductive system works...but why not Rosalie's? Esme's? Alice's?" Maybe these answers are out there somewhere and I haven't done enough research...
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Re: The Science of Twilight

Post by Auctorita »

pubesy wrote:
malaz wrote:Pubesy, i don't really see what you're trying to prove with that since that works on humans,
I am not trying to PROVE anything, malaz. and i am not just relating vampires to humans.
For me, the blood that enters their body is sort of the same with the food that enters our body. The food has fats that are stored in our body and the longer the days we don't eat ANYTHING at all, these fats are gone. to me, analogically. it's the same thing with the vampires. the blood enters their body, and the venom evaporates it in a matter of a week or 2.
fat just does not "disappear" or "evaporate" once it has been used as energy in the human (or any living being) body. Fat is broken down and removed from the body once it has been metabolized. When we (as living beings) eat in excess we store fat, when we do not eat enough, we break down these fat stores, metabolise them and eliminate them from our body (thus losing weight). since A vampire's body does not and cannot change, not do vampires excrete waste, the blood seems to "disappear" which is scientifically implausible.
When we lose weight or these fats are burned from our body, is there waste that comes out?
Yes there is, it is called metabolic waste. The excess nitrogen, sulphites, ammonia, CO2 etc are converted to urea and excreted as urine, or exhaled, lost in sweat etc. Since vampired do not need/or cannot exhale, pee, poo, sweat, shead tears etc, they cannot remove waste material from their body.
Waste, is what our body doesn't need, and that's what the vacuoles in cells store. till they are out of our body. SINCE the vampires USE it up ALL (the blood) it creates no waste adding to the fact that their organs do not work. it's just the venom, it's too strong (just like the brown contacts in BD), it evaporates everything.

vacuoles only store until they can be removed from the cell, once they are removed from the cell, the products the vacuoles store are transported in the blood to the kidney where the waste is removed in the urine. Since vampires do not have working kidneys, this cannot happen.

Even if the vampires (for arguments sake) DID in fact use pure blood as energy from their body (and did not have to break the blood down into smaller compounds initially in order for it to be small enough to travel into the vampire's "cells"), the blood would still have to be "metabolised" "broken down" or "converted" in some form, in order to be transferred from chemical energy into kinetic energy. Thus there would be waste products from this process of energy conversion.

You mention evaporation - even with evaporation things do not disappear. the liquid turns into a gas and enters the atmosphere. but you can't even use this as an argument for vampires - because they cannot sweat, hence produce liquid to be evaporated!


even if you apply this theory into NONLIVING objects, say, a coal fire station.

energy does not just "magically" appear from coal. the coal is "broken down" and carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, water and other products are released into the atmosphere as waste products (thus global warming).

even with a water turbine - the energy does not magically appear, nor does the water disappear - the water moves a wheel with the pressure - the pressure then generates kinetic energy and is then transformed into electricity. no water disappears in the process.

Good point pubesy . I had never considered how they digest all that blood, I guess I was distracted with the implausibility of Bella's pregnancy. :lol:
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