Re: Explorations (**BD2 Movie Spoilers!**)
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:10 pm
Suzan, I loved reading your comments! I'm going to have to watch that scene again.
No, I don't think book Edward would have done that, although he might have had those thoughts.
As to your question about communication, let me pick out your key comment:
Let me also say, I think if Bella actually explicitly gave her reasons to Edward he would have believed her. His blind spot always seems to come back to how much Bella loves him, and sometimes he just completely drops that from his equations until she reminds him. That's a recurring theme all the way to the final paragraphs of the final chapter.
That part is completely subject to interpretation. You would have a good point that Edward simply couldn't be that blind. I tend to go with the extreme nature of that scene as underscoring Edward's cluelessness, which I believe is admittedly somewhat contrived in order to send an intentional signal that a) Jacob was always Edward's choice as he represented Bella keeping her humanity, and b) Edward hates his own nature and still believes changing Bella is wrong. I don't think there's any question that if Bella accepts Jacob's proposition that the whole vamp thing is off for her.
I think this is heavily influenced by one's own personal view of Edward's character. I may be wrong, but I simply can't see Edward as knowing, at the moment of his initial conversation with Jacob, Bella's true reasons for keeping this child. He may have glommed onto that afterwards, and certainly by the time he hears Renesmee's voice or shortly afterwards. I'm sure he and Bella have some discussion on that after the dog leaves.
I just hate to think that Edward is fully informed and still has that talk with Jacob. That isn't a regression back to his EC persona, it is a regression all the way back to NM and his willingness to betray Bella for "her own good". I can't imagine Edward would ask Jacob to proposition Bella unless he really doesn't know why Bella will carry to term. But then, he was the "burning man". There's fuel for both sides.
I know this comes back to some of my prior comments on masculinity and that "puppies" conversation. I personally find that scene tolerable only because of Edward's confusion and his belief that there is a slim possibility that it might work. Hence, B&E never had an honest discussion.
My opinion only, and I know it's heavily influenced by my own image and opinion of Edward.
No, I don't think book Edward would have done that, although he might have had those thoughts.
As to your question about communication, let me pick out your key comment:
I think that is subject to one's own opinion. I would agree that it is baffling why Edward might appear to suddenly be such a lunkhead. I'm absolutely basing that off of the "puppies" talk he had with Jacob. My impression was always that Edward was completely baffled by Bella's insistence on carrying the pregnancy to term. My take was that Edward was putting a lot down to "human female stuff", not knowing what else could be the reason. She is a biological human, pregnant, hormones coursing through her body, irrational, motherly instincts taking over. OK, not very complimentary to Edward, but then sometimes women are baffling to men. I don't know whether he even thought about the fact that HE being the father had anything to do with it, or if his own self-revulsion just walled that off. That's the lunkhead part, that he didn't seem to even consider that as a possibility or had considered it but ruled it out completely.Suzan wrote:In the book, I always got the impression that he did realize why Bella did what she did and he was trying to understand it. He didn’t agree with her, but at least he saw her POV.
Let me also say, I think if Bella actually explicitly gave her reasons to Edward he would have believed her. His blind spot always seems to come back to how much Bella loves him, and sometimes he just completely drops that from his equations until she reminds him. That's a recurring theme all the way to the final paragraphs of the final chapter.
That part is completely subject to interpretation. You would have a good point that Edward simply couldn't be that blind. I tend to go with the extreme nature of that scene as underscoring Edward's cluelessness, which I believe is admittedly somewhat contrived in order to send an intentional signal that a) Jacob was always Edward's choice as he represented Bella keeping her humanity, and b) Edward hates his own nature and still believes changing Bella is wrong. I don't think there's any question that if Bella accepts Jacob's proposition that the whole vamp thing is off for her.
I think this is heavily influenced by one's own personal view of Edward's character. I may be wrong, but I simply can't see Edward as knowing, at the moment of his initial conversation with Jacob, Bella's true reasons for keeping this child. He may have glommed onto that afterwards, and certainly by the time he hears Renesmee's voice or shortly afterwards. I'm sure he and Bella have some discussion on that after the dog leaves.
I just hate to think that Edward is fully informed and still has that talk with Jacob. That isn't a regression back to his EC persona, it is a regression all the way back to NM and his willingness to betray Bella for "her own good". I can't imagine Edward would ask Jacob to proposition Bella unless he really doesn't know why Bella will carry to term. But then, he was the "burning man". There's fuel for both sides.
I know this comes back to some of my prior comments on masculinity and that "puppies" conversation. I personally find that scene tolerable only because of Edward's confusion and his belief that there is a slim possibility that it might work. Hence, B&E never had an honest discussion.
My opinion only, and I know it's heavily influenced by my own image and opinion of Edward.