Bella Swan Cullen

[KaseyHeartEdward]

But isn't that what we want to see? Someone who human? That we can somewhat to realate to? All of us are selfish and selfless at the same time. Yet we want to be seen as Selfless. If any one of us were called selfish i think we might all try to deny it at some degree.

It's still a contradiction in Meyer's writing for what she tells the reader is not what is shown through Bella's actions and reasoning. She tells us that Bella is so selfless but she isn't, she's both selfless and selfish. If an author tells the reader something then what happens in their story should support that statement.

Yea i understand what your saying but i mean no one can truly be Selfless. I think Stephenie meant that she can be a Selfless person.

[holdingoutforjacob]

i wouldn't describe bella as selfless, nor would i describe her as selfish, just like i would not describe her as weak nor strong. bella is a thoroughly middle-ground character.

[Esme echo]

But isn't that what we want to see? Someone who human? That we can somewhat to realate to? All of us are selfish and selfless at the same time. Yet we want to be seen as Selfless. If any one of us were called selfish i think we might all try to deny it at some degree.

It's still a contradiction in Meyer's writing for what she tells the reader is not what is shown through Bella's actions and reasoning. She tells us that Bella is so selfless but she isn't, she's both selfless and selfish. If an author tells the reader something then what happens in their story should support that statement.

This totally confuses me! When did the author state that Bella was selfless? Can you give me some quotes from Q&As or something? I just don't recall Bella ever being portrayed as totally selfless.

[navarre]

But isn't that what we want to see? Someone who human? That we can somewhat to realate to? All of us are selfish and selfless at the same time. Yet we want to be seen as Selfless. If any one of us were called selfish i think we might all try to deny it at some degree.

It's still a contradiction in Meyer's writing for what she tells the reader is not what is shown through Bella's actions and reasoning. She tells us that Bella is so selfless but she isn't, she's both selfless and selfish. If an author tells the reader something then what happens in their story should support that statement.

This totally confuses me! When did the author state that Bella was selfless? Can you give me some quotes from Q&As or something? I just don't recall Bella ever being portrayed as totally selfless.

Esme echo, I went to the New Moon section of SM's website and clicked on the storyline tab and mid way down SM discusses how Bella unfolded in NM by pushing though the agony and living for others - Charlie in particular. That would imply a 'selfless' characteristic on Bella's part. That make sense to me, because bascially she was more selfless in most of the saga by protecting her mother from this dangerous world Bella was now involved in and keeping Charlie in the dark, willing to meet the newborns in some place so that no one else - especially the Cullens - would get hurt(she was willing to sacrifice herself to protect them and others(Eclipse).

Those sort of things stand out for me anyway.

P.S. Thank heavens for FAQ's and storyline tabs - they are a big help for me.

[Auctorita]

Yea i understand what your saying but i mean no one can truly be Selfless. I think Stephenie meant that she can be a Selfless person.

Ah ok. The problem is that when she does this she tends to ignore the times that Bella has been selfish.

This totally confuses me! When did the author state that Bella was selfless? Can you give me some quotes from Q&As or something? I just don't recall Bella ever being portrayed as totally selfless.

Aside from the example navarre mentioned a lot of it comes from the books. Every unselfish thing Bella does is given so much attention as either some "big sacrifice" or the other characters praise her for being so selfless (even in their thoughts) while anything that was selfish/self-centered is barely acknowledged by anyone. The New Moon example mentioned, Bella's move to Forks and all her attempts to save her family are given all this praise and attention, but her bitter complaining when things don't go her way, using people for her own benefit (Jacob and human friends) and her disregard for other people's thoughts and feelings over her own (this is more evident in Eclipse New Moon and a bit in Breaking Dawn) are mostly ignored. This emphasis on only her selfless actions implies that we should view Bella as selfless when she has actually proven herself to be a bit of both.

[Esme echo]

Okay .... So what I'm reading here is that people have assumed the author wanted us to believe Bella was selfless. Stephenie never said that to my knowledge; I'd love to see some actual statement Stephenie made, or even language in the book that implied Bella was "selfless." I don't recall seeing it.

I went to the New Moon section of SM's website and clicked on the storyline tab and mid way down SM discusses how Bella unfolded in NM by pushing though the agony and living for others - Charlie in particular. That would imply a 'selfless' characteristic on Bella's part.

Bella surprised me with her grit and dogged determination. She pushed through the agony, living for others—Charlie in this case—as has always been her style.

No mention of selflessness here, that I can see ... she was doing her normal nurturing thing. You can label that selfless if you want; I do not.

Every unselfish thing Bella does is given so much attention as either some "big sacrifice" or the other characters praise her for being so selfless (even in their thoughts) while anything that was selfish/self-centered is barely acknowledged by anyone. ... This emphasis on only her selfless actions implies that we should view Bella as selfless when she has actually proven herself to be a bit of both.

Two things here:
1) we're seeing this story primarily from Bella's eyes.
2) I don't believe that just because Bella's friends and loved ones in the Saga choose to focus on her good qualities--which is not so surprising; I do the same thing with my friends and loved ones!--we are supposed to assume the author intended us to believe Bella is some selfless heroine. Obviously, she's just a rather socially inept teen, deeply in love with two amazing mythological beings, trying to protect her vulnerable family and friends from sadistic vampires, and not be killed in the process. I think she did amazingly well! I think she was no more or less selfish than other typical teens.

[Amivera]

The word 'selfless' has been used for Bella many times, by the books or by SMeyer herself, I can assure you of that.
Edward also spends half of Midnight Sun talking about how selfless Bella is, and many times throughout Twilight he tells her so.
Even before Midnight Sun was leaked, however, Bella was being defined as 'selfless', because I do believe it was used a few times throughout Twilight. I'll make a post when I have time to go through and find it.

[moon sidhe]

1) we're seeing this story primarily from Bella's eyes.
2) I don't believe that just because Bella's friends and loved ones in the Saga choose to focus on her good qualities--which is not so surprising; I do the same thing with my friends and loved ones!--we are supposed to assume the author intended us to believe Bella is some selfless heroine. Obviously, she's just a rather socially inept teen, deeply in love with two amazing mythological beings, trying to protect her vulnerable family and friends from sadistic vampires, and not be killed in the process. I think she did amazingly well! I think she was no more or less selfish than other typical teens.

I 100% agree with this, Esme Echo. Well-said!

[Amivera]

I thought this was really funny. It's a little off-topic, but I wasn't sure where to put it.
From this link: http://otahyoni.livejournal.com/130432.html#cutid1

The Twilight Catalog

Number of Pages in the Book: 498
The First Hint of a Plot that Is Not Bella and Edward's Romance: page 328
When the Plot Actually Arrives: page 372

Boys that Totally Love Bella (Including Edward Cullen): 5

Approximate Amount of Time Bella and Edward are Romantically Involved Before Bella Is Begging Edward to Turn Her into a Vampire so They Can Be Together Forever: Like, two weeks. Maybe three. The timeline's a bit fuzzy.

References to Edward's Beauty: 165

Broken Down into the following categories -

* Face: 24 (Favorite adjectives: glorious, heavenly, seraphic)
* Voice: 20 (The voice of an archangel, donchaknow.)
* Eyes: 17
* Movement: 11
* Smile: 10
* Teeth: 8
* Muscles: 7
* Skin: 7 (Note: This only contains accounts of Edward's skin being beautiful. I didn't count references to it as "pale," "cold," or "white." If I had, this number would be about ten times larger.)
* Iron Strength or Limbs: 5
* Breath: 4 (EVEN HIS BREATH IS AMAZING.)
* Scent: 4
* Laughter: 3
* Handwriting: 2
* Chest: 2
* Driving Skills: 1


The Number of Times...

* Bella Is Clumsy or Makes a Reference to Her Clumsiness: 26
* Bella Sneers at Forks or Its Inhabitants: 22
* Bella is "Dazzled" or Rendered Speechless by Edward's Beauty or Touch: 17
* Edward Tells Bella to Stay Away from Him While Completely Contradicting Himself with His Behavior: 16
* Bella is Utterly Desolate at Edward's Absence: 12
* Edward and Bella Kiss: 8
o Bella's Hormones Get the Better of Her and She Attacks Edward, Almost Causing Him to Eat Her: 2 (She's not even allowed to kiss him back! Where's the fun in that?)
o Edward's Kiss Makes Bella Faint: 1
o Edward's Kiss Makes Bella's Heart Literally Stop: 1
* Bella Thinks She Isn't Good Enough for Edward: 6
* Edward Is Referred to As Godlike: 5 (Note: This number might be off, as I didn't start counting until three or four mentions in.)
* Edward Tells Bella She's Unnatural: 5
* Edward Sparkles: 3
* Bella is in Mortal Danger: 3
o Edward Saves Bella from Mortal Danger: 3
* Edward Stalks Bella, For Real: 2 (Note: One of these instances involves watching her sleep every night for, like, months.)
* Bella says "Holy Crow!": 2
* Bella and Edward Argue About Who Loves the Other Most: 1
* Edward's Inability to Read Bella's Mind is Explained: 0

It's not exact, but fairly accurate. XD

[Jazziscool]

But isn't that what we want to see? Someone who human? That we can somewhat to realate to? All of us are selfish and selfless at the same time. Yet we want to be seen as Selfless. If any one of us were called selfish i think we might all try to deny it at some degree.

It's still a contradiction in Meyer's writing for what she tells the reader is not what is shown through Bella's actions and reasoning. She tells us that Bella is so selfless but she isn't, she's both selfless and selfish. If an author tells the reader something then what happens in their story should support that statement.

This totally confuses me! When did the author state that Bella was selfless? Can you give me some quotes from Q&As or something? I just don't recall Bella ever being portrayed as totally selfless.

Actually, I think that some people made it seem like that because of Edward's point of veiw in Midnight Sun as Bella being selfless. I only skimed through this page, so maybe some one already said this, I don't know. *shrug*