Jacob Black

[mlola619]

i actually really can't stand Jacob Black.. he messed up everything for bella and edward.. and made bela cheat on edward!!
i could not stand that.. he tricked bella into kissing hiM and hurting edward..



TEAM EDWARD!!!!!!!!!!!

All in an effort to help Bella realize that she did love Jacob and to see her options. He was opening her eyes to let her see she had a choice of living a normal life. Don't you think it was fair for Bella to be able to KNOW she wanted Edward, having to choose him apart from someone else she loved? Sure what he did was wrong- but his intentions were justified; he was trying to save her from the possibility of making a decision without seeing the possibilities. Through this Bella does mature and realizes that she does love Jacob, and in my opinion that's a good thing and it was a crucial part of her growing up; learning to choose between 2 loves. I also feel like through this Bella really made a decision, and since she chose Edward we know it was a real decision, not just cause he's the only person she's ever loved.

[Esme echo]

i actually really can't stand Jacob Black.. he messed up everything for bella and edward.. and made bela cheat on edward!!
i could not stand that.. he tricked bella into kissing hiM and hurting edward..

Can you not stand Jacob, or can you not stand the fact that Bella responded to him?

Put another way, if Jacob had behaved the very same way but Bella had totally ignored him and/or walked away from him, would you still have a problem with Jacob?

(Please give your answer some honest thought ... I would really like to know.)

[Amethyst1]

All in an effort to help Bella realize that she did love Jacob and to see her options. He was opening her eyes to let her see she had a choice of living a normal life. Don't you think it was fair for Bella to be able to KNOW she wanted Edward, having to choose him apart from someone else she loved? Sure what he did was wrong- but his intentions were justified; he was trying to save her from the possibility of making a decision without seeing the possibilities. Through this Bella does mature and realizes that she does love Jacob, and in my opinion that's a good thing and it was a crucial part of her growing up; learning to choose between 2 loves. I also feel like through this Bella really made a decision, and since she chose Edward we know it was a real decision, not just cause he's the only person she's ever loved.

I can't agree to that, ever.
Yes, he did it 'to save bella and make her see she's inlove with him"
BUT he was also telling her to 'choose him" thus 'stealing her from edward'
It doesn't make any thing he did okay, so i can't justify anything he did in eclipse
i absolutly can't stand jacob & bella in eclipse. they are just...ughhhh!!

I thought bella was being a little toooo childish throughout eclipse, really! but i guess that just comes from the fact that her actions are, actions i wouldn't have done - or done differently!

[mlola619]

All in an effort to help Bella realize that she did love Jacob and to see her options. He was opening her eyes to let her see she had a choice of living a normal life. Don't you think it was fair for Bella to be able to KNOW she wanted Edward, having to choose him apart from someone else she loved? Sure what he did was wrong- but his intentions were justified; he was trying to save her from the possibility of making a decision without seeing the possibilities. Through this Bella does mature and realizes that she does love Jacob, and in my opinion that's a good thing and it was a crucial part of her growing up; learning to choose between 2 loves. I also feel like through this Bella really made a decision, and since she chose Edward we know it was a real decision, not just cause he's the only person she's ever loved.

I can't agree to that, ever.
Yes, he did it 'to save bella and make her see she's inlove with him"
BUT he was also telling her to 'choose him" thus 'stealing her from edward'
It doesn't make any thing he did okay, so i can't justify anything he did in eclipse
i absolutly can't stand jacob & bella in eclipse. they are just...ughhhh!!

I thought bella was being a little toooo childish throughout eclipse, really! but i guess that just comes from the fact that her actions are, actions i wouldn't have done - or done differently!

I really don't think Jacob was trying to steal Bella away- he was trying to show her the other door, one that led to him. I think one of the main reasons people lash out on Jacob so much is because he's in comparison to Edward, but can we think about this for a second? Edward is what, 107 YEARS OLD? I'm pretty sure he's had ALOT more time to mature as oppose to a 16 year old guy. The only reason Edward wasn't trying to make Bella choose him was because he was much more mature and is of course over that kind of stuff. He felt it should be Bella's decision fully. And of course Jacob was trying to get Bella to choose him- he loved her! Wouldn't we in our desperation do the same thing!? Sure his actions made it seem that way- but if Jacob was really trying to "steal" Bella away don't you think he would've kept chasing her after she talked to him at the end of Eclipse? Jacob knew he'd only get once chance to show Bella the other door, and once he did he let her decide. Of course once she decided he let her be. There's nothing wrong with trying to open the eyes of someone you love.

[holdingoutforjacob]

i actually really can't stand Jacob Black.. he messed up everything for bella and edward.. and made bela cheat on edward!!
i could not stand that.. he tricked bella into kissing hiM and hurting edward..



TEAM EDWARD!!!!!!!!!!!

All in an effort to help Bella realize that she did love Jacob and to see her options. He was opening her eyes to let her see she had a choice of living a normal life. Don't you think it was fair for Bella to be able to KNOW she wanted Edward, having to choose him apart from someone else she loved? Sure what he did was wrong- but his intentions were justified; he was trying to save her from the possibility of making a decision without seeing the possibilities. Through this Bella does mature and realizes that she does love Jacob, and in my opinion that's a good thing and it was a crucial part of her growing up; learning to choose between 2 loves. I also feel like through this Bella really made a decision, and since she chose Edward we know it was a real decision, not just cause he's the only person she's ever loved.

couldn't have said it better myself.

All in an effort to help Bella realize that she did love Jacob and to see her options. He was opening her eyes to let her see she had a choice of living a normal life. Don't you think it was fair for Bella to be able to KNOW she wanted Edward, having to choose him apart from someone else she loved? Sure what he did was wrong- but his intentions were justified; he was trying to save her from the possibility of making a decision without seeing the possibilities. Through this Bella does mature and realizes that she does love Jacob, and in my opinion that's a good thing and it was a crucial part of her growing up; learning to choose between 2 loves. I also feel like through this Bella really made a decision, and since she chose Edward we know it was a real decision, not just cause he's the only person she's ever loved.

I can't agree to that, ever.
Yes, he did it 'to save bella and make her see she's inlove with him"
BUT he was also telling her to 'choose him" thus 'stealing her from edward'
It doesn't make any thing he did okay, so i can't justify anything he did in eclipse
i absolutly can't stand jacob & bella in eclipse. they are just...ughhhh!!

I thought bella was being a little toooo childish throughout eclipse, really! but i guess that just comes from the fact that her actions are, actions i wouldn't have done - or done differently!

the telling bella to choose him was a part of his goal to get bella to stay alive. if she were to chose him, she'd stay human.

he wasn't doing it just to "steal bella from edward."

and even if he was, that's not, in and of itself, wrong. if no one ever interfered with our relationships, we'd al end up marrying the boys we kiss in the coatroom in first grade (come on, who else??)

plus, edward does plenty of things that are questionable if you look at them by themselves on the surface, but we are expected to consider his intentions, and those grand intentions make it ok for him to do whatever he wants. why isn't the same shown to jacob??

again, mlola, i totally and completely agree with that last post too.

[spicey16]

he didnt make bella cheat on Edward. You cant make someone cheat. He kissed her but then she through herself into the kiss full force. She chose to "cheat" on edward and check out that other door. I dont think edward was very bothered by it. He knew she loved him and they were meant for each other. Edward never got mad. He knew what jacob was going to do and he let her go do it. He wanted to give bella a fair shot bc at that point he's still very against her becoming a vampire. ANYWAY back to jacob, he was given a chance and he took it. Good for him. but in no way did he make bella cheat.

[Amethyst1]

mlola619
Him trying to lead her to another door, is a synonym on ‘trying to steal her away from Edward’ - really it doesn’t make much of a difference.
I have to say something though, I’ve got the facts. I’ve learned his intentions and yet in no possible way could I be compassionate towards him. I know that’s very obnoxious or rude and whatnot. But I can’t overcome what my mind thinks--to think differently of him.

I think one of the main reasons people lash out on Jacob so much is because he's in comparison to Edward, but can we think about this for a second? Edward is what, 107 YEARS OLD?

Ohhh, please. I have to say, don’t count me as one of those people you dubbed that hate Jacob because they compare him to Edward. That’s just unreasonable and you know what. I do not dislike Jacob because he appears immature (which he is - sure, he has some mature moments.) compared to Edward. Jacob to me is his own person and he deserves that 100%. I don’t think he deserves to be compared to a 107 years worth of goodness that is Edward. He shouldn’t be compared to Edward and then “oh look at that. He’s less mature than Edward. I hate him!” that’s just…I would never do such a thing. and that certainly shouldn't be done with any other character as well.

The only reason Edward wasn't trying to make Bella choose him was because he was much more mature and is of course over that kind of stuff.

No, I have to disagree with that. Defiantly. I THINK that’s a part of his personality, because if were in his shoes I would do the same. It’s hard for me to force myself onto people. I ALWAYS want them to make the decision. I would want to give them as much room as possible, think it through and you know, “I am here. Want me. Come get me” - I’d want what’s best for them. Whatever it takes…yusss, I know. Sacrificing my own happiness? ^___~ ...hahahaha. I am not kidding. Even IF I were in Jacob‘s shoes, I properly would have done the same. I don‘t know how Jacob is able to get through what bella says to him and you know still want to fight for her, in aggressive mode.. I am nothing like Jacob, sure I may share a few things with him. But I defiantly don’t have that whatever it’s called, he had in eclipse.

And of course Jacob was trying to get Bella to choose him- he loved her! Wouldn't we in our desperation do the same thing!?

No, I wouldn’t like I’ve said. Also, I have never been in his shoes so right at this moment I can only tell you what I think I would do--of what I know of myself and my personality and what kind of person I am. I wouldn’t have fought for bella (ew!) the same way Jacob did. I…am not capable of that. Call me crazy, but that's just how i've always been.

And yes, there’s defiantly nothing wrong with him showing bella she loves him - but couldn’t he have done it in a less aggressive, pushy, manipulative way? Whatever though…I’ve discussed this issue a thousand times and it always ends with. “okay we don’t agree. Lets end it at that”

and even if he was, that's not, in and of itself, wrong. if no one ever interfered with our relationships, we'd al end up marrying the boys we kiss in the coatroom in first grade (come on, who else??)

plus, edward does plenty of things that are questionable if you look at them by themselves on the surface, but we are expected to consider his intentions, and those grand intentions make it ok for him to do whatever he wants. why isn't the same shown to jacob??

LOL!! what...?
and oh you think interfering is good? how do you think YOU would feel if you were in Edward's shoes and you've loved someone with all your heart, unconditionaly and irrationaly. then this other dude your girlfriend turns out to be inlove with him is trying to steal her away from you...hmm??
but here is my side on it. it's never good. the three people will end being hurt somehow and one person will be terribly heartbroken. in this case, it's jacob.

Well if you want to question edward, please go a head. Really.
I like i've said before, nothing edward does bothers me. So it won't matter much to me if i nitpick those questionable actions or just ignore them all the same - it's not going to change my mind. But perhaps for other people...
The same is not shown for jacob from me because well, his actions DO bother me. so...

[holdingoutforjacob]

And of course Jacob was trying to get Bella to choose him- he loved her! Wouldn't we in our desperation do the same thing!?

No, I wouldn’t like I’ve said. Also, I have never been in his shoes so right at this moment I can only tell you what I think I would do--of what I know of myself and my personality and what kind of person I am. I wouldn’t have fought for bella (ew!) the same way Jacob did. I…am not capable of that. Call me crazy, but that's just how i've always been.

And yes, there’s defiantly nothing wrong with him showing bella she loves him - but couldn’t he have done it in a less aggressive, pushy, manipulative way? Whatever though…I’ve discussed this issue a thousand times and it always ends with. “okay we don’t agree. Lets end it at that”

if you've never been in his shoes in that situation how can you judge him for his actions?? i'm not faulting you, just asking.

here's my thinking on it, though somehow i doubt you wanna hear it:
he did things the way he did because he was on a SEVERE time crunch here. i'm assuming the manipulation you are speaking of refers to the kiss scene before the fight in eclipse? in that case look at it from jake's POV. he's about to go into BATTLE. he could possibly DIE. this is about as desperate and last ditch as you can be! it was his only option at that time.

also, this isn't a normal relationship. we have to be sure we keep things in context here. this isn't some teen relationship that will probably end in a few months anyway, and if you want in you can simply open your chosen's eyes to how great you are without necessarily interfering. this is a dead set relationship, but it's also a first relationship.

edward realizes this, being older and more worldly than bella. that's why i don't think he has a problem with it, and i really, REALLY commend him for that.

and even if he was, that's not, in and of itself, wrong. if no one ever interfered with our relationships, we'd al end up marrying the boys we kiss in the coatroom in first grade (come on, who else??)

plus, edward does plenty of things that are questionable if you look at them by themselves on the surface, but we are expected to consider his intentions, and those grand intentions make it ok for him to do whatever he wants. why isn't the same shown to jacob??

LOL!! what...?
and oh you think interfering is good? how do you think YOU would feel if you were in Edward's shoes and you've loved someone with all your heart, unconditionaly and irrationaly. then this other dude your girlfriend turns out to be inlove with him is trying to steal her away from you...hmm??
but here is my side on it. it's never good. the three people will end being hurt somehow and one person will be terribly heartbroken. in this case, it's jacob.

Well if you want to question edward, please go a head. Really.
I like i've said before, nothing edward does bothers me. So it won't matter much to me if i nitpick those questionable actions or just ignore them all the same - it's not going to change my mind. But perhaps for other people...
The same is not shown for jacob from me because well, his actions DO bother me. so...

haha yeah let's not talk about my kindergarden years shall we? they were...questionable.

i actually think you're being a bit closed minded here. it's not a betrayal to edward to really comprehend WHY jacob needed to do things the way he did them, why he chose to, and i don't think you do, as much as you may think so.

no i am not FOR interference, but i do believe its a part of life. it's a part of relationships. also, let's consider something here. bella's seventeen and this is her first relationship. and she's planning on maintaining it forever. she's not going to consider other options, so yes, interference is good. also, she's making a decision that is very very dangerous, and so jacob's interference is justified. however, you are right that people usually get hurt, but sometimes it really is necessary.

malaz, i brought that up about edward not to fault edward, but more to show you something. i don't like edward, but i can admit that he's a good guy, and his actions are justifiable, but something about him bugs me. i'm not trying to make you pro-jake. i'm just trying to show you that you're being a bit harsh.

i know we've had heated discussions about him before, so if you don't want to discuss this stuff, that's fine, just say that, no offense will be taken!

[KaseyHeartEdward]

I agree with what Jacob did yes he probably went the wrong way in showing Bella that she loved him. But he loved her and he didn't want her to die and become a vampire.

I think it was good for Bella to see that other door that she could open. No one made her see it or "cheat" Sorry no one can make people do anything it was her choice.

Also i think that might need to be pointed out that I am pretty sure if Edward didn't exist she would have chosen Jacob. Edward is unatural and techniclly shouldn't be alive (don't get me wrong i love Edward and all his Vampire qualities) But Bella would have been with Jacob and he was only trying to show her that. I also love Jacob and totally understand where he is coming from.

[Amethyst1]

if you've never been in his shoes in that situation how can you judge him for his actions?? i'm not faulting you, just asking.

here's my thinking on it, though somehow i doubt you wanna hear it:
he did things the way he did because he was on a SEVERE time crunch here. i'm assuming the manipulation you are speaking of refers to the kiss scene before the fight in eclipse? in that case look at it from jake's POV. he's about to go into BATTLE. he could possibly DIE. this is about as desperate and last ditch as you can be! it was his only option at that time.

also, this isn't a normal relationship. we have to be sure we keep things in context here. this isn't some teen relationship that will probably end in a few months anyway, and if you want in you can simply open your chosen's eyes to how great you are without necessarily interfering. this is a dead set relationship, but it's also a first relationship.

edward realizes this, being older and more worldly than bella. that's why i don't think he has a problem with it, and i really, REALLY commend him for that.

But then again, don’t we all judge other characters without being in their shoes?

No no, I do want to hear it. Don’t worry about it.

I think a part of it is that he wanted to fight for her still, because that was the scene when she realized she loved him. He wanted to fight ‘unfair’ and he wanted to win her. He wanted to hurt Edward just like when Edward hurt him with the ‘10 nights thing” --
I’ve read that passage at the end of eclipse a thousand times and I can never find a proper “unharsh” perspective on it.
I do not think that Jacob thought he was going to die. Alice reassured them, Jacob has a big ego and was an optimist about the whole battle. Hahahahaha…
Perhaps though, “him on a time crunch” is a part of it as well.

You’re right, it’s not a playful teen relationship. It’s extraordinary.

Yes he realizes that but how can he not have a problem with it? He is suffering in agony to make bella happy. Do you think he’s okay with the choice if bella picked Jacob other than him? He would be happy she picked the healthier choice in his eyes. He’s okay about it because as long as Bella is happy, he can sacrifice his own happiness.
That’s WHY he wanted to fight for her--he experienced losing her once. He learns from his mistakes and he isn’t going to push her into an option he will regret. If he didn’t have a problem with it, he would have just left again.
Do you think, he wasn’t bothered by the first kiss, the second kiss, the tent scene (bella cuddled in Jacob’s arms)…?

i actually think you're being a bit closed minded here. it's not a betrayal to edward to really comprehend WHY jacob needed to do things the way he did them, why he chose to, and i don't think you do, as much as you may think so.

no i am not FOR interference, but i do believe its a part of life. it's a part of relationships. also, let's consider something here. bella's seventeen and this is her first relationship. and she's planning on maintaining it forever. she's not going to consider other options, so yes, interference is good. also, she's making a decision that is very very dangerous, and so jacob's interference is justified. however, you are right that people usually get hurt, but sometimes it really is necessary.

malaz, i brought that up about edward not to fault edward, but more to show you something. i don't like edward, but i can admit that he's a good guy, and his actions are justifiable, but something about him bugs me. i'm not trying to make you pro-jake. i'm just trying to show you that you're being a bit harsh.

i know we've had heated discussions about him before, so if you don't want to discuss this stuff, that's fine, just say that, no offense will be taken!

Wait--I don’t think I got the first paragraph. Hmmm…? it’s 5:30 in the morning as I type this.
Oh wait. I think I got it. Sorry.
No, it’s not a betrayal to Edward and I am not betraying him. I know why Jacob did the things he did, I know his intentions and they’re good intentions, they might bother me a little but all in all, good intentions. But here’s the problem, his actions.
I know I am not making any sense but I just really disliked them…so…I think this case is solely based on my opinions even though I’ve got the facts. I know I don’t have any arguments against him in eclipse… I mean, yeah. Jacob is a great guy, he was trying to do a good deed. I just can’t help my anger instincts that is all.

Ok, I just thought it was really useless. Bella now knows her options, she STILL picks Edward and wants to become a vampire. I just always knew she wasn’t going to change her mind. And I know she thought about becoming a vampire a thousand times, she knew the pros vs. the cons. The OPTION that Jacob presented to her was himself. He wanted to make her see she loved him, he thought when she knew that she would think again about becoming a vampire and chose his option, if he succeeded. Obviously bella is going to choose him. He’s got all that planned, knowing that the option will lead to him. That’s at least how I see it.

No, I do want to discuss this. I know for part of this discussion I don’t have any good arguments. but I am speaking from my opinions and how I view the situation and some facts. I know I am being a maybe a litttlee too harsh on Jacob.

AND I know something isn’t going to make any sense in my post *yawnssss* it’s 6 am now…i bet none of it makes sense. I could be sleep typing... >___>
i am really sorry if it doesnt' make sense. i have a feeling it won't...hmm...?