if you've never been in his shoes in that situation how can you judge him for his actions?? i'm not faulting you, just asking.
here's my thinking on it, though somehow i doubt you wanna hear it:
he did things the way he did because he was on a SEVERE time crunch here. i'm assuming the manipulation you are speaking of refers to the kiss scene before the fight in eclipse? in that case look at it from jake's POV. he's about to go into BATTLE. he could possibly DIE. this is about as desperate and last ditch as you can be! it was his only option at that time.
also, this isn't a normal relationship. we have to be sure we keep things in context here. this isn't some teen relationship that will probably end in a few months anyway, and if you want in you can simply open your chosen's eyes to how great you are without necessarily interfering. this is a dead set relationship, but it's also a first relationship.
edward realizes this, being older and more worldly than bella. that's why i don't think he has a problem with it, and i really, REALLY commend him for that.
But then again, don’t we all judge other characters without being in their shoes?
No no, I do want to hear it. Don’t worry about it.
I think a part of it is that he wanted to fight for her still, because that was the scene when she realized she loved him. He wanted to fight ‘unfair’ and he wanted to win her. He wanted to hurt Edward just like when Edward hurt him with the ‘10 nights thing” --
I’ve read that passage at the end of eclipse a thousand times and I can never find a proper “unharsh” perspective on it.
I do not think that Jacob thought he was going to die. Alice reassured them, Jacob has a big ego and was an optimist about the whole battle. Hahahahaha…
Perhaps though, “him on a time crunch” is a part of it as well.
You’re right, it’s not a playful teen relationship. It’s extraordinary.
Yes he realizes that but how can he not have a problem with it? He is suffering in agony to make bella happy. Do you think he’s okay with the choice if bella picked Jacob other than him? He would be happy she picked the healthier choice in his eyes. He’s okay about it because as long as Bella is happy, he can sacrifice his own happiness.
That’s WHY he wanted to fight for her--he experienced losing her once. He learns from his mistakes and he isn’t going to push her into an option he will regret. If he didn’t have a problem with it, he would have just left again.
Do you think, he wasn’t bothered by the first kiss, the second kiss, the tent scene (bella cuddled in Jacob’s arms)…?
i actually think you're being a bit closed minded here. it's not a betrayal to edward to really comprehend WHY jacob needed to do things the way he did them, why he chose to, and i don't think you do, as much as you may think so.
no i am not FOR interference, but i do believe its a part of life. it's a part of relationships. also, let's consider something here. bella's seventeen and this is her first relationship. and she's planning on maintaining it forever. she's not going to consider other options, so yes, interference is good. also, she's making a decision that is very very dangerous, and so jacob's interference is justified. however, you are right that people usually get hurt, but sometimes it really is necessary.
malaz, i brought that up about edward not to fault edward, but more to show you something. i don't like edward, but i can admit that he's a good guy, and his actions are justifiable, but something about him bugs me. i'm not trying to make you pro-jake. i'm just trying to show you that you're being a bit harsh.
i know we've had heated discussions about him before, so if you don't want to discuss this stuff, that's fine, just say that, no offense will be taken!
Wait--I don’t think I got the first paragraph. Hmmm…? it’s 5:30 in the morning as I type this.
Oh wait. I think I got it. Sorry.
No, it’s not a betrayal to Edward and I am not betraying him. I know why Jacob did the things he did, I know his intentions and they’re good intentions, they might bother me a little but all in all, good intentions. But here’s the problem, his actions.
I know I am not making any sense but I just really disliked them…so…I think this case is solely based on my opinions even though I’ve got the facts. I know I don’t have any arguments against him in eclipse… I mean, yeah. Jacob is a great guy, he was trying to do a good deed. I just can’t help my anger instincts that is all.
Ok, I just thought it was really useless. Bella now knows her options, she STILL picks Edward and wants to become a vampire. I just always knew she wasn’t going to change her mind. And I know she thought about becoming a vampire a thousand times, she knew the pros vs. the cons. The OPTION that Jacob presented to her was himself.
He wanted to make her see she loved him, he thought when she knew that she would think again about becoming a vampire and chose his option, if he succeeded. Obviously bella is going to choose him. He’s got all that planned, knowing that the option will lead to him
. That’s at least how I see it.
No, I do want to discuss this. I know for part of this discussion I don’t have any good arguments. but I am speaking from my opinions and how I view the situation and some facts. I know I am being a maybe a litttlee too harsh on Jacob.
AND I know something isn’t going to make any sense in my post *yawnssss* it’s 6 am now…i bet none of it makes sense. I could be sleep typing... >___>
i am really sorry if it doesnt' make sense. i have a feeling it won't...hmm...?