Rosalie Hale

[Amethyst1]

um..well, tell me and please EXACTLY what i have changed. either it's misinterpretation on your part or maybe i wasn't clear on my part. because my opinions were the same as far as I remember. so yeah, i'd appreciate it. AND i've always said she was rude, so i don't really know what you're saying. if you want me to go back, i can quote myself saying she was rude. i'd never did an 180 on that...but yeah. i'd appreciate you telling me regardless.

isn't that the same thing? you're confusing me. Yes Rosalie was protective of bella. what i found interesting. before he had any clue about what Rosalie was doing he used the term "protective. hovering over her" but then after he found out, he used "posessive"

[holdingoutforjacob]

well when you continually point out jacob's bias it seems to the discerning reader that you are saying that the things jacob says can't really be taken seriously, so her rudeness might not be so bad. also you didn't acknowledge that she was rude until a few posts ago. you weren't very clear.

i would love for you to tell me what jacob's bias matters.

[Lioness Rampant]

i thought you disagreeing with me about it from before...weren't you and holdingoutforjacob attacking me for thinking it was "biased"???

I repeat myself- anything from a first person perspective is going to be “Biased”

and yes, you acn percieve an action differently. and AGAIN, i'll mention the different perspectives. there's bella, and there's jacob's...

well, I see where we disagree, in that case. I don’t believe its reasonable to say that you can “perceive and action differently.”
Only the motivation or the intention.
I can see why you think you are talking in circles.

and what IS the fact? you can theorize of coarse, since we're reading it from jacob's pov. but her actions are actions, that's correct...

what ARE you talking about, Malaz? You go from saying that you can “perceive actions differently” to agreeing with me.

AND there are always different perspectives to it. yeah...which are called "opinions". so, and i absolutely have no idea what we're particularlly applying this too. but jacob's opinions of rose are NOT concrete facts. like you/i/we said. b.i.a.s.e.d!

obviously. What’s your point?

i'd imagine you'd like to apply the term "one-sided" to me.

No. I don’t accuse people of things unfairly, like you seem to imply.

but i am not one-sided and especially in this situation.
I am looking at it from ALL sides. The fact that i can aknowlege rose is rude, disrespectful and abnoxious and her main motive was the baby (and of coarse she wanted to help bella WHICH i do not want to discuss since it's a moot point)...

Malaz, you continue to amaze me. I don’t know even why I’m responding to you! You continuously refuse to acknowledge my points, and you have yet to tell me what makes you think that Rose possible cared for Bella’s well being.

(of course I still love you, though! )

you're.judging.her.intentions....which she acted on to an extent....but HELPNG BELLA, when no one else was helping her with it. if you were in bella's shoes, wouldn't you want the same thing done for you?

This.Makes.No.Sense.
“Which she acted on to an extent”….??? Once again, you cannot seem to get past the point of Bella’s pov. Malaz. HONESTLY. JAKE is bias. BELLA is bias. Can we look past what Jake and Bella thought??

Are you still saying you are not one-sided? Or are you just going to call me one-sided again?
her actions...? her actions...

AND AGAIN. different perspectives result in different opinions. i don't know why you can't get that, i keep mentioning again and again and you keep questioning it.

I understand this. What makes you think I don’t? That’s what I’m asking that we look PAST.

LOL, yeahh...
yeah, of coarse i love you. hopefully you won't take anything too personal

Of course not! Same to you! I love you! <333

[Amethyst1]

well when you continually point out jacob's bias it seems to the discerning reader that you are saying that the things jacob says can't really be taken seriously, so her rudeness might not be so bad. also you didn't acknowledge that she was rude until a few posts ago. you weren't very clear.

i would love for you to tell me what jacob's bias matters.

and i think you're overstating stuff. Rosalie wasn't verbally abusing anyone and neither was Jacob. they were both VERY rude.
verbal abuse is LITTERLY abuse but in a langauge form. and it's intentional and said to make someone feel low about them selfs, lower their self-esteem, damage their emotional well being and their physical state. and the abuser themselves usually feel low about themselves and have no regard to themselves in the first place, and that's what [usually] triggers their abuse, they want the abusee to feel the same thing they're feeling. So, does that sound familiar? i don't think so.

that was a post from FOUR pages ago. and my second post where we started the discussion. you still haven't told me what i changed about my original opinion?

it's really hurtful to say something like that, because this whole discussion started because i said jacob was biased and i wasn't intending for a discussion, just posting my opinion. if his bias didn't matter, then why did you bother replying to my post in the first place, then telling me 4 pages later that it doesn't matter??? i am quite mystified. (feel free to take it to a PM, if you'd prefer)

[Amethyst1]

lioness rampant --

then why did you attack me when i said jacob is "biased" a few pages back? you could have just said, "yes and it doesn't matter" -- i could have finished my french homework by now...well, maybe that's my fault since i spend my time on here on my own free will. sigh, the lex is such a procastination. but still.

i've NEVER disagreed with you when i said "her actions are actions" yes, they are her actions. Clearly, i am not making myself clear. I am talking about Jacob's OPINION of Rosalie and his take on her actions. at least i was. then you tell me that it doesn't matter and we should discuss her actions without discussing what the other characters think of them, then you bring back a point from the previous discussion and the same thing is being said. no, i am not going around in circles. we are.

hmm, as i said. it's a moot point. "rosalie caring for bella's well-being" can't i have an opinion? the particular subject is unsubstantial, there are 2 sides to it. and neither are correct because there is no concrete evidence...untill SM tells us at the very least. so it's moot. if you want to discuss it, go ahead. but don't expect me to be apart of it. but of coarse, post your opinion all you want.

if you don't want to respond to my posts then why do you respond to my posts if you dont' want you?
But honestly, for discussion sake, lets LOOK past what jacob and bella think of rose. since this discussion is done now. they're both biased which was what my firstestttt post talked about. What do you want to discuss Lioness Rampant?

(love you hun!!!)

[holdingoutforjacob]

really malaz, i promise you that you are the one going in circles.

i don't mean to hurt you of course. honestly, you should know that by now silly! *uses kissy-face smiley that doesn't exist but should!*

well then, if you weren't saying that jacob's bias didn't matter in the way we view rose's actions, then it was rather random, so you can see how we assumed you were using his bias as a way to refute our points. i still have absolutely NO IDEA what your point was about jacob being biased. but you definitely used it as a way to say we were misinterpreting rose's actions, simply because it's jacob's POV.

no one is attacking you malaz. you've been here a long time, you should know it's not personal, and not an attack.

yes, of course you can have an opinion, but you should be able to back it up. that's the point of a discussion forum.

[Lioness Rampant]

I am talking about Jacob's OPINION of Rosalie and his take on her actions. at least i was. then you tell me that it doesn't matter and we should discuss her actions without discussing what the other characters think of them, then you bring back a point from the previous discussion and the same thing is being said.

what point from what previous discussion? well, thats unimportant.
I think, and will remain firm in this thought, that Jake's opinion of Rose, Bella's opinion of Rose, Edward's opinion of Rose, should not make a difference in anyone's assesment of Rose's intentions, motives, atcions, or words. happy? or do I need to say it again?
(don't hate me- I think this is the only thread we've disagreed on!! )

hmm, as i said. it's a moot point. "rosalie caring for bella's well-being" can't i have an opinion?

Malaz,of course you can have an opinion! Why would you imply that i wouldn't want that? we wouldn't be on this thread like this if you weren't meant to have an opinion! I just don't see what your opinion is grounded in... what supports this opinion? Its not that I don't like your opinion, I just can't see why you've formed it or what led you to develop it! Don't ever think that I don't respect your opinion, or any other individual! (<333)

the particular subject is unsubstantial, there are 2 sides to it. and neither are correct because there is no concrete evidence...untill SM tells us at the very least. so it's moot. if you want to discuss it, go ahead. but don't expect me to be apart of it. but of coarse, post your opinion all you want.

I understand what you're saying, I just don't understand that, when you admit there is "no concrete evidence" how you could assume such a thing... thats all! don't start hating me!!!

if you don't want to respond to my posts then why do you respond to my posts if you dont' want you?

I wouldn't respond if I didn't want to- you know that! I was just complaining- dont take it personally! <3

But honestly, for discussion sake, lets LOOK past what jacob and bella think of rose.

THANK YOU! *celebrates!!*

since this discussion is done now. What do you want to discuss Lioness Rampant?

how about her wisdom in Eclipse? This was always something that intrigued me!!
I don't mean her story, I mean the whole "I'm jealous of you- you're wasting what I've always wanted, so I'll try not to dislike you, but live for the moment- enjoy what you've got, carpe diem, so on and so forth"
how about we discuss THAT?
(love you, too!!!)

[cascsiany]

I absolutely agree with you Lioness. Rosalie gives Bella some great advise. Especially when she says you may want to become one of us now but think about what you may want 10 or 15 or 20 years from now.

Although I do think she kind of underestimates just how strong Bella and Edward's relationship is. That's kind of why she doesn't understand what Edward would do if Bella died in New Moon.

[holdingoutforjacob]

i think she underestimates their relationship in new moon and twilight. and frankly, bella doesn't exactly contradict the image of a lovestruck teen, now does she? a classic trait of very self-centered people is that they don't bother to look into the psyche of others very deeply. sometimes this manifests itself in them "always seeing the best in people" and other times the opposite.

i think in eclipse she gets it - she's self-centered, but she's not dumb, and realized what a huge mistake she made in NM. and therefore i think bella should have REALLY REALLY considered her advice, because it was from the heart, not tainted with any sort of misunderstanding on rose's part. in fact, that even leads me to believe that rose could possibly care for bella a bit in BD (there's some evidence for you malaz!!!).

and if you think about it, edward was doing this same thing wasn't he? he made sure she went to prom, made sure she had lots of human experiences and allowed her to "experiment" outside their relationship, because he knew she was making a huge sacrifice to be with him, whether she realized it or not.

[Lioness Rampant]

actually, holdingoutforjacob, if you carefully read the dialouge, Rose states plainly that she does not like Bella "but would try harder"... not very substantial evidence...

anyway, I think Bella should have absorbed Rose's advise... she made some awfully rash choices! It all worked out for the better, but thats fiction for you!