Edward and Bella 2

[diane771]

Truly? I wouldn't care if I knew my man was truly devoted to me. Edward should have being smarter and realised that Bella would never have left him, no matter what.

Some of these Twilight things are seriously bugging me. It makes younger girls want an Edward themselves, someone who will break into their rooms at night and watch them sleep. Someone who doesn't let them see a friend. Someone manipulates you into marriage.

No if a girl wants someone to sleep then yes that is wrong. But I have even dealt with my fiance about a friend a best friend him and his wife that I knew for over 30 yrs and he did not like it. Do you honestly think that it would be fair to the person that you love, to keep going around someone who keeps taunting your lover about how he is better and is going to win your heart no matter what. Would you really want a woman around I not sure if you are married but before or even now someone
that is blatantly presueing him and you were just trying to get over a rough patch. Tell me straight that you would say sure go out with her tonight I see you in the morning, knowing all the while that woman is doing everything she can to get your man. I don't believe you, if you say it wouldn't bother you. But that wasn't even what bothered Edward, he didn't want Jacob and Bella maybe talking about him and Bella telling Jacob that they have no future and then Jacob losing control. It happened so how can you say it was so terrible of Edward. Marriage is a committment, just as Bella was asking to become a vampire. Marriage should be taken seriously and not jumping from one person to anther if you are in love and you pledge yourself to that person forever and are willing to becoma a vampire, marriage is really sending young girls to wait for their Edward and wait for marriage is there a problem with that? Sounds pretty good to me. wish I would have taken that advice sometimes.

[Jazz Girl]

I agree. They have so many problems. The stalker bit is the beginning.

the second? Edward not letting her see Jacob. That is completely out of line.
It's exactly like an abusive boyfriend not letting a girl see one of her friends.

I couldn't care less if he was a wolf and could hurt her any second, I still think that Edward is using his vamp-ness over her.
I find that unfair.

I don't knormally do this. In fact, it really snaps my teeth together when people do. But, AliceLuvsEdward, I have to say you are wrong here. It is easy to look at Edward's actions on the surface and say that it's the same as an abusive boyfriend. But, as someone who has both lived in and worked around violent relationships for more than 1/2 my life, it just isn't so. Now, I will be the first to say that some of Edward's behavior's ie the truck incident most definitely cross a line. And, if they were to occur in reality, I would be the first person telling you to call the police and lose that man like a bad hair day. But, looking at them within the context of the story, in the universe that SM created, it's just not right. Relationship violence is about power and control. It is about using any means necessary to gain power within the relationship and using it to violate, hurt, and do harm to the other person. And, the other piece of the equation comes in the continuing pattern. Controlling and violent behavior within abusive relationships follows a pattern of escalating violence and decreasing time periods between incidents. Itonly ever gets worse. It does not dissapate or end unless there are major interventions. And, there will be shorter and shorter time periods between major incidents.

In Edward & Bella's relationship, yes, the power naturally belongs to Edward by default. He is physically stronger and much more capable than Bella. But, the other piece of the power base comes from his life experience. Being over a century old and a natural leader of sorts, Edward naturally assumes a power position in the relationship. But, keep in mind none of these things does he want. All of his natural advantages come because he's a vampire. He doesn't want to be stronger and faster and 90 years older than Bella with all the knowledge and wariness that that entails. He wants nothing more than to be a normal, human 17 year old boy who can be with her, learn from her and grow with her. But he just can't be.

And, Edward's intention is never to hurt or to do harm. Far far from it. Edward only ever wants to keep Bella safe, to protect her even from herself. To use the Jacob example, ou say that you don't care if she wants to pal around with someone who could turn on her and physically injure her or kill her without intending to at any moment? We've talked before on this thread, comparing Edward's actions to those of someone who takes a friends carkeys because they are about to drive drunk. And, I really think that's an awesome comparison. Would Jacob have ever intended to harm Bella? No. But, does the drunk driver ever mean to kill the person in the oncoming car? The answer is still no. But, it doesn't change the outcome. Bella desperately wanted to believe that Jake was still just Jake and she was safe. But, the reality in the Twiverse is that there was no way to be sure of that. There are even times when Bella herself is afraid, consciously or unconsciously of Jake. For Edward, who had just by her grace been reunited with the woman he loves to allow her to be so reckless with her life? Yeah, I can see why he might get a little overprotective.

Finally, Edward's behavior changed. Every thing he ever did with the intention of protecting Bella pretty much went right out the window because of Bella. Bella essentially told Edward to back off. And, he did. He not only stopped interfering with her seeing Jake, he gave her his blessing and even drover her to and from. He not only relented to all her conditions about the wedding, he agreed that they didn't need a wedding but she could still have the fully human honeymoon she wanted. He not only relented about her transformation, he did it himself.

Edward never used the natural power that he hated having to hurt Bella in anyway, and anything he ever did that crossed the line he stopped doing and usually ended up doing exactly the opposite, giving Bella every thing that she asked for. Within the context of SM's Twiverse, Edward Cullen is the furthest thing from an abusive boyfriend as their could ever be. Was their relationship perfect? Nope. Like all relationships, it had it's ups and downs, good and bad times. But, that just makes it a little more real.

[AliceLuvsEdward]

Just because those actions were justified doesn't mean you can just brush them off anf forget about them.
Even if he WAS concerned with her safety, it doesn't mean he had the right to pull apart her engine to stop her from going over to Jacob's. And having Alice hold her while he was gone isn't very nice either. I think Bella is too naive and forgets the actions the minute she sees Edward.

Sure, he got better, but still.

And leaving her-- he left for her safety and assumed that she would forget about him. That never happened. What happened was that she practically went into a comatose state. She was too dependant on him. No matter how much she loves him, it is not normal for you to react like that when your boyfriend breaks up with you.
And then she forgives him in like two seconds when he comes back. It's like, now that he's back, life is going to get better and everything is gonna turn out right.

[diane771]

Just because those actions were justified doesn't mean you can just brush them off anf forget about them.
Even if he WAS concerned with her safety, it doesn't mean he had the right to pull apart her engine to stop her from going over to Jacob's. And having Alice hold her while he was gone isn't very nice either. I think Bella is too naive and forgets the actions the minute she sees Edward.

Sure, he got better, but still.

And leaving her-- he left for her safety and assumed that she would forget about him. That never happened. What happened was that she practically went into a comatose state. She was too dependant on him. No matter how much she loves him, it is not normal for you to react like that when your boyfriend breaks up with you.
And then she forgives him in like two seconds when he comes back. It's like, now that he's back, life is going to get better and everything is gonna turn out right.

I think its can be more normal than you think. You are blaming him for things that happen everyday to everyday couples and yet I see you blowing it out of propisition and dwelling on that. She knew why he left, and Bella broke apart and she needed to be strong and she wasn't but blame Edward for Bella not being able to go on with her life. What if Edward was human and died in a car accident and was gone. Would she have been the same, maybe? Forgiving someone who made a desision out of love for you and not wanting to hurt you, feeling horrible that it did, and is just torn up as you. Yes I would forgive. I guess some people would not. What kind of message does that send?

[AliceLuvsEdward]

What if Edward died in a car accident?
I would say, "Good riddance."

[holdingoutforjacob]

I think it's beyond creepy. I really do. It's one of the things that just turns me off to them as a couple.

If he had not told her what he did, been completely and absolutely honest with her about it the way he was, then, yes, I probably would have an issue with him coming to her room and watching her. But, he told her, opened up to her and let her know exaclty what he did and why he did it. He didn't hide it from her or make excuses. His intentions were pure and I believe without any shadow of a doubt that if she had shown the least bit of fear or of being uncomfortable in any way, he would have stopped immediately.

And, personally, it's an impulse I understand completely. Maybe not the sneaking in the room, persay. But, I love to watch my husband sleep. He's an early to bed type of man, you see. And, I am clearly not the early to bed type. So, he's often sleeping soundly when I find my way to our bedroom. Many nights, I will leave the bedside lamp on for a few minutes and just watch him. He's so peaceful when he sleeps. And some of that peace will usually find it's way to me somehow. And, yes, sometimes he mumbles. Nonsense or not, those little insights into what's going on in his mind are diamonds for me. To me, it's an amazingly intimate time between us. I'll lean over and kiss his forehead or run my hand through his hair. It's just a beautiful peaceful moment with just us and no crazy outside world crashing down. I think that is what drew Edward to Bella's room, night after night. He could just be with her, away from prying eyes and have just a few hours where nothing, not his nature, not the kids at school, not his family, could interfere. And, being able to share in Bella's thoughts when she wasn't being so guarded, when she was 100% honest, was a gift to him as well.

Well first, let me say that I think what you do with your husband is quite sweet and not creepy at all. But he is your husband. Who you are married to. Who you, presumably, know very well. I don't know when he started to sneak into her room, but it can't have been long after they met right? THAT'S what makes it just so.... uncomfortable and icky to me. It's just... you know how some people get grossed out by the concept of imprinting on someone so much younger, but they get that it's not dirty it's just... awkward??? Yeah that's me here.

I agree that Bella is too dependent upon Edward. However, that's not his fault. He honestly, truly didn't believe she'd be that way. I agree with you on a lot of counts AliceluvsEdward, but this one was actually the best side of Edward - the incredible selflessness that continually awes me.

[diane771]

What if Edward died in a car accident?
I would say, "Good riddance."

No forgiveness or understanding ?

[The Dark Knight]

What if Edward died in a car accident?
I would say, "Good riddance."

No forgiveness or understanding ?

Forgiveness and understanding are given to those that are worthy of it...not undead creatures...That the part that should be creepy here. He is a monster, maybe wearing sheep’s clothing, but he does in the end kill her and possibly destroys her soul. We may never understand what evil lurks in the dark recesses of Edward’s mind. The appearance of his actions, seen through Bella's very rosy color glasses may make thing look OK but they are not and playing an ostrich only get’s one’s butt hurt in the end.

Another point here is, yah Edward doesn't make the same grievous mistake twice, he moves onto another one and then another one. They even escalate through the course of the four books. Small steps of manipulation and playing on the vanity of Bella young and very impressionable mind is his method of operation. Here's the example of vanity that many would love, (I MEAN LOVE), to remain young and beautiful is one of the greatest forms of vanity that humans have. It does not take a mind reader (pun intended) to know that Bella would want this. Through experimentation Edward figures out the best way to get Bella to do something is to deny her or put road block in front of her (yep the old reverse psychology trick) and she falls for it, nay demands it (the fool).

Really wake up; Edward is a monster that has the time and the motivation to think through several paths to get what he wants. He’s not the epitome of what a man should be.

[diane771]

What if Edward died in a car accident?
I would say, "Good riddance."

No forgiveness or understanding ?

Forgiveness and understanding are given to those that are worthy of it...not undead creatures...That the part that should be creepy here. He is a monster, maybe wearing sheep’s clothing, but he does in the end kill her and possibly destroys her soul. We may never understand what evil lurks in the dark recesses of Edward’s mind. The appearance of his actions, seen through Bella's very rosy color glasses may make thing look OK but they are not and playing an ostrich only get’s one’s butt hurt in the end.

Another point here is, yah Edward doesn't make the same grievous mistake twice, he moves onto another one and then another one. They even escalate through the course of the four books. Small steps of manipulation and playing on the vanity of Bella young and very impressionable mind is his method of operation. Here's the example of vanity that many would love, (I MEAN LOVE), to remain young and beautiful is one of the greatest forms of vanity that humans have. It does not take a mind reader (pun intended) to know that Bella would want this. Through experimentation Edward figures out the best way to get Bella to do something is to deny her or put road block in front of her (yep the old reverse psychology trick) and she falls for it, nay demands it (the fool).

Really wake up; Edward is a monster that has the time and the motivation to think through several paths to get what he wants. He’s not the epitome of what a man should be.

Ok lets go down the line. I am a creature of God and I am not dead so I am a undead creature so I get no forgiveness or understanding. DK Do you really think that is very nice to be like that to me?
Edward did not kill her. Bella would have died when she had the baby. Edward pleaded with her to get rid of it. So her death was her choice and hers alone, she made it not Edward. When someone dies on the operating table is the doctor held responsable?
DK, DK you are slipping tonight on your arguements, no facts to back. For the first one Edward didn't want Bella to become a vampire and would have loved her till she died a human death and then he would have died. Edward did not want to live in a world without Bella in it. So where is the vanity at ? Wasn't it Bella. Oh I can't be older than Edward. I must be turned now!!!"
Or did you forget that. Edward was enrolling her in college, sending admitition letters to many, many colleges with the hope that Bella would go to college as a human. Edward sure was evil trying to get Bella into a good college. That ranks up on the top ten things you can do to a person except kill them, its just horrible.
another one. They even escalate through the course of the four books. Small steps of manipulation and playing on the vanity of Bella young and very impressionable mind is his method of operation. Yes I know what about him being mature enough to think more of Bella and her humanity and not his pleasure and needs and wants, and leave her to go on and live a long human life. What was Edward thinking. Shame on him for wanting Bella to have a human life with college, marriage and childern .
Every moment that I am writing this DK I can see your point clearer and clearer. So let go for the gusto here I know you can do better than this come on. The little violins might be coming out soon.

[The Dark Knight]

What if Edward died in a car accident?
I would say, "Good riddance."

No forgiveness or understanding ?

Forgiveness and understanding are given to those that are worthy of it...not undead creatures...That the part that should be creepy here. He is a monster, maybe wearing sheep’s clothing, but he does in the end kill her and possibly destroys her soul. We may never understand what evil lurks in the dark recesses of Edward’s mind. The appearance of his actions, seen through Bella's very rosy color glasses may make thing look OK but they are not and playing an ostrich only get’s one’s butt hurt in the end.

Another point here is, yah Edward doesn't make the same grievous mistake twice, he moves onto another one and then another one. They even escalate through the course of the four books. Small steps of manipulation and playing on the vanity of Bella young and very impressionable mind is his method of operation. Here's the example of vanity that many would love, (I MEAN LOVE), to remain young and beautiful is one of the greatest forms of vanity that humans have. It does not take a mind reader (pun intended) to know that Bella would want this. Through experimentation Edward figures out the best way to get Bella to do something is to deny her or put road block in front of her (yep the old reverse psychology trick) and she falls for it, nay demands it (the fool).

Really wake up; Edward is a monster that has the time and the motivation to think through several paths to get what he wants. He’s not the epitome of what a man should be.

Ok lets go down the line. I am a creature of God and I am not dead so I am a undead creature so I get no forgiveness or understanding. DK Do you really think that is very nice to be like that to me?
Edward did not kill her. Bella would have died when she had the baby. Edward pleaded with her to get rid of it. So her death was her choice and hers alone, she made it not Edward. When someone dies on the operating table is the doctor held responsable?
DK, DK you are slipping tonight on your arguements, no facts to back. For the first one Edward didn't want Bella to become a vampire and would have loved her till she died a human death and then he would have died. Edward did not want to live in a world without Bella in it. So where is the vanity at ? Wasn't it Bella. Oh I can't be older than Edward. I must be turned now!!!"
Or did you forget that. Edward was enrolling her in college, sending admitition letters to many, many colleges with the hope that Bella would go to college as a human. Edward sure was evil trying to get Bella into a good college. That ranks up on the top ten things you can do to a person except kill them, its just horrible.
another one. They even escalate through the course of the four books. Small steps of manipulation and playing on the vanity of Bella young and very impressionable mind is his method of operation. Yes I know what about him being mature enough to think more of Bella and her humanity and not his pleasure and needs and wants, and leave her to go on and live a long human life. What was Edward thinking. Shame on him for wanting Bella to have a human life with college, marriage and childern .
Every moment that I am writing this DK I can see your point clearer and clearer. So let go for the gusto here I know you can do better than this come on. The little violins might be coming out soon.

Your cracking me up here Diane with the sarcasms...Thanks...

Let's throw another curve ball...You and most of the folks here believed the Bella’s version of Edward. That's understandable, but not necessarily the “true Edward.” Heck the way SM writes, channeling the characters, she might even be deceived by him. Evil is best served when it looks good...I mean tasty...no that's not it, I mean plays the good guy. Edward is smart by all accounts, smart enough to get the girl...poor little wolfy, not girl for you till much, much later...

Is it not possible that Dark, Evil, Malevolent Edward could hatch this overly complicated with a ton of crazy side stories and weird twist (I think he was consulting with Dr. Evil) to which he gains no small pleasure in the tragedy that is Bella? He has after all gone over 100 years with out baking… That’s enough time to drive anyone mad…