Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Twilight Saga: The Official Illustrated Guide Discussion Forum

Moderators: December, Bronze Haired Girl, una

Forum rules
Click for Forum Rules

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby Jeakat » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:11 am

Lol, I know what you mean about the long posts, I can't help myself either!

I wasn't aware I was projecting Team Edward to anyone. That's just my take on how I interpreted the books and which actor I liked better. I always saw Bella and Edward together. I just didn't feel the relationship with Jake ever stood a chance.


That's fine. I only got that impression because you were talking about the relationship between Bella and Jacob all throughout the books, saying that you couldn't see them going any further. I couldn't either, and just wanted to make it known that I wasn't bringing up Jacob and Bella's past together as anything more than an example of how I don't think her actions changed in BD. I so don't want you to think that I was saying you were forcing Team Edward on anyone, because you weren't. At all :D

In BD I didn't see that change much. Only when she would "light up".


He was always a friend but almost like the big brother she always wanted. Not boyfriend material. If you saw an example somewhere, tell me. I honestly can't recall any.


I didn't see it change either. I think she always lit up when she saw Jacob. I don't think that has any to do with anything romantic between them, just that she was happy to see him. For me, that's exactly the same in BD and therefore it can't be anything to do with the imprint. I didn't see Jacob as boyfriend material either (personally I think the whole love triangle thing was pretty forced). But he wasn't always the big brother type to her. If he was, she'd have never kissed him, for obvious reasons. And I seriously don't think Bella is an innocent party in all of it either. Far from. She knew Jacob was in love with her and yet she still kept seeing him when Edward returned. Yes, she felt bad and wanted to makes sure he was ok, but sometimes in life you just have to accept that you've lost a friend and put things in the past. What solidifies this, for me, is that Bella knows what this does to Edward. Edward's problems don't just stem from the fact that him and Jacob are mortal enemies and Bella knows this. Angela spells out to Bella that Edward is jealous and she just dismisses it. I'm not saying that women can't have male friends just because their partner might get jealous, but if that friend is in love with the woman and she knows it, then it changes things. Especially as it turned out that Bella was in love with him too. (Wow, we're getting way off topic! Lets bring it around):

Bella was always happy when Jacob was around, way before Nessie was conceived, so their actions towards one another had nothing to do with the imprint. Jacob wasn't subconsciously drawn to Bella because she was pregnant with his imprint, he was drawn to her because he thought she was dying. Similarly, Bella wasn't drawn to Jacob because of Nessie, she was drawn to him (happy to see him) because she never thought she'd see her 'friend' again after her wedding. She wanted Jacob in her life (which I personally think is more than a little selfish, but that's for another time!), and so when he turns up on the Cullen doorstep, she's overjoyed. it's even confirmed in the book when she assumes that Jacob has actually come to visit her! That's why I think that the theory given in the book (that Jacob and Bella are drawn to each because of Nessie) is wrong.
I wasn’t born a compassionless shrew. I used to be sort of nice, you know - Leah Clearwater, Breaking Dawn, p.316
Jeakat
Wandering Through Town
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:24 pm

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby BellaMia » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:53 pm

Bella IS selfish when it comes to Jacob. She should have cut him loose because keeping him tied to her only hurt him. Having him around suited her purposes but not necessarily his. But until she responded to that kiss in Eclipse before the fight, I still think she never really encouraged him. But she didn't really shut him down either. Even though she did ask him to kiss her, she was kind of trying to just get it over with. She didn't respond at first. She fought it pulling Jacob's hair but then he just kissed her harder and she just gave in. Then it seemed like she responded to the kiss not just because she loved Jacob back but also because he could respond in a way Edward couldn't. He didn't have to hold back. He wasn't careful and it was like a sensory overload to her. He wasn't perfect like Edward and he accepted Bella the way she was unconditionally. She never thought she was good enough for Edward. Didn't see what he saw in her. But every time Jake had made some sort of pass at her, she would kind of shrug it off. Like when she mentioned to Mike she was just tutoring a sophomore and Jake was her best friend (emphasis on the friend). Or when Jake mentioned that Quil sort of liked her, she said he was way too young for her and Jacob was the same age maybe even a few months younger. That's why I say she never took their relationship seriously. She downplayed their relationship and constantly used him. Mostly as a shield from others attentions, as a diversion and to make Charlie happy. But I think there is a distinction about the way she acts around Jacob in the first three books and how she briefly acts in BD. He's a good friend. He understands more about her than she realizes and he rescues her from the deep depression she fell into when Edward left. She did imagine the possibility of a future with Jacob but only because the only option she really wanted wasn't available anymore. It was mentioned how stubborn she was. That making a decision was very difficult for her but once it was made, that was it. She didn't change her mind. She was "a constant little thing". She saw forever with Edward and a big family whom she loved. When Bella first came back from her honeymoon, I don't think she seemed overly excited to see Jacob at all. Almost the minute after he entered the Cullen house, she was throwing up. She was kind of embarassed about being sick in front of him. She was also very annoyed by his behavior. Then she's worrying that Jacob and Edward will fight and one or both of them would be killed. Jacob may kill Edward but then Jasper and Emmett would kill him. So no good ending there. But when they came back and Jacob and Bella were alone, they seemed to slip back into the old friendship mode. Kind of joking but with a serious undertone and hiding how ill she really was. But even then, Bella mentioned about the whole A Midsummer's Night Dream thing. That there was a kind of magic waiting for Jacob when he eventually imprints on someone else. She said "You'll find who you're really looking for, Jacob, and maybe then all of this will make sense." She's still pushing him away. But then she's comforting him because he's angry and thinks she's going to die. He's confused as to what the purpose of him loving her and Bella loving Edward if she's just going to die anyway. But no sign of Bella being overly excited to see him. He still wants to leave and when they discuss her drinking blood, he doesn't leave because he thinks she looks like she has only 15 minutes left. But Bella is not truly excited to see Jacob until after he speaks with Jared. Jacob said he couldn't remember the last time she'd been so excited to see him. It's only after Bella drinks the blood and starts looking better that this bond seems to start. They (Bella & Nessie) were both weak and dying then everything starts to turn around. As they gain strength, things begin to change. Bella starts lighting up. She's asking for Jacob more often and this doesn't end until Nessie's born. The timeline shows this happened for maybe two days tops. Jacob didn't even see Bella until Sept. 7. Bella drank blood on the 8th then Nessie is born on the 10th and Jacob was gone half that day driving to the park and back. So Jacob wasn't even near Bella until the last days of her pregnancy. It wasn't like this behavior was dragging on for weeks. Then when Jacob was near Bella, it was only in between him running patrol or sleeping. They were rarely together. So there wasn't much time to establish a bond but I believe there was something extra going on. I still believe there was a reason for Jacob mentioning that it was Nessie that made Bella need to have him around. I don't think it's a random thought. It is explained because there has to be some sort of significance there. I don't think Stephenie Meyer threw in some unnecessary filler. When she writes an explanation for something, it's been important to the storyline. Ultimately I think Bella didn't cut Jacob loose because it wouldn't have made much of a story if the love triangle wasn't there. I think SM said it was necessary for Bella to weigh all her options and then make a choice. Bella had already decided in Twilight that she wanted to be with Edward forever but it was the rash decision of a 17 year old. She didn't have the maturity or life experience to make a informed decision. She had to know what she would be giving up. Jacob is her humanity.
BellaMia
Settled in Forks
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:58 am

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby Jeakat » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:04 pm

I've been away for a few days and I missed our chats!

I can certainly see what you're saying. From reading most of your posts I can tell that we're coming from the same direction, but it's so interesting to see how other people interpret things so differently.

It is explained because there has to be some sort of significance there. I don't think Stephenie Meyer threw in some unnecessary filler. When she writes an explanation for something, it's been important to the storyline.


Umm, yes and no. I can see where you're coming from, but I don't personally agree. Firstly, I don't think all of the explanations have that kind of purpose. A lot of the theories in the books (especially based around the wolves, and imprinting too) are just that, theories. That's what I like about SM's writing sometimes. Often, the characters don't know what's going on and come up with their own explanations and ideas. Sometimes they're proved right, sometimes wrong. But what's interesting about SM is that sometimes we don't ever get the proof of whether a theory is right or wrong because sometimes there's no way for the characters to find that information out at the time.

I don't think SM was trying to stuff in any filler, but that the characters will come up with their own explanations of what's happened. Even if the theory is true, and Jacob and Nessie were drawn to one another, then it's still the characters coming up with their own explanation which has the potential to be proved/disproved in the future.

Now, my view of Bella probably has a great of influence on how I see the situation, but I personally think that the theory Jacob stated was convenient for both him and Bella. After imprinting, Jacob probably thought back on his love for Bella and realised how mucked up the whole situation is. Even though everyone's happy and the "love triangle" is sorted, Jacob still has to live with the knowledge that he was in love with his imprints mother before she came along. Bella also has to deal with the fact that she had a complicated relationship with her daughters soul mate. It's easier for them to believe that they were drawn to each other because of Nessie, rather than face the truth. Again, I'm saying that that's definitely what happened, just how I see it.
I wasn’t born a compassionless shrew. I used to be sort of nice, you know - Leah Clearwater, Breaking Dawn, p.316
Jeakat
Wandering Through Town
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:24 pm

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby BellaMia » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:54 pm

Nothing can ever be explained as fact. It's all interpretations of what someone generally believes to be fact. Jacob's explanation for Bella's pull towards Jacob is reasonable because it does make sense. We have to assume what we see and feel until proven otherwise. It's just faith. After Nessie was born, the pull towards Bella was gone. Jacob felt it pulling him downstairs towards Nessie. It was described as "I leaned forward and felt the heat begin to change me while the pull toward the killer grew - it was stronger than I'd ever felt it before, so strong it reminded me of an Alpha's command, like it would crush me if I didn't obey." The heat, the irresistable pull. This seems to be a force drawing Jacob to Nessie. He was angry and he wanted to kill Nessie but I don't think this was why he felt this. It seemed like he was under someone else's control. That's why it was explained as being like an Alpha's command. When he looked into Nessie's eyes, he felt the full effect of the imprint. The heat increased then became a glowing. It seems the the heat began before he saw Nessie. That it was caused because of her. Then changed to the glowing when he finally saw what the heat had brought him to. Nessie didn't have to return his feelings. When Nessie touched Bella after the change, Bella saw through Nessie's eyes the possessiveness she felt for Jacob. He was hers. She thought about him more than her own father. Neck and neck with her own mother. Nessie was only 3 days old. But appeared to be weeks or months old. Still very young for a bond like that. She formed that bond with Jacob immediately when it should have taken time to develop. But even before Nessie was born, she was able to understand and Edward was able to communicate with her . She was extremely advanced and I still tend to believe she had a head start on a relationship with Jacob. At the moment of his imprint, his feelings for Bella didn't matter any more. That tie was cut. All bonds were overruled by his new feelings. But I don't think it changed how he felt about her at the time. I think what he felt for Bella was love. The kind of love two humans could have for one another. But an imprint is different. It's still love, but a much more powerful kind. Bella loved both Jacob and Edward, but one love was stronger than the other. It didn't make the weaker love go away, it was still there but she committed to the one she felt strongest. So the whole Nessie/Jacob thing probably was incredibly weird for Bella. She probably thought initially it was pretty twisted but when she thought there was no hope, she completely trusted Jacob with her daughter. She knew he would love and protect Nessie at any cost so she ultimately accepted their relationship. She'd seen the result of an imprint before but it was a major shock that it would be on her baby. But even Edward had seemingly accepted it because he could read Jacob's thoughts and knew his intentions were pure. I think both Bella and Jacob got over whatever feelings they had in the past. Jacob didn't see Bella as his love anymore, he saw her as Nessie's mom. Bella seemed to see Jacob as Nessie's friend and protector. Eventually maybe a future son in law. They both matured and they took on different roles in each others lives. It was just how things developed. I don't think in the end that it was any kind of issue for them.
BellaMia
Settled in Forks
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:58 am

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby FigureSk8r13 » Thu May 12, 2011 3:38 pm

I thought this was really cool. I love family trees. As someone else said, I would have liked to see how Emily and Leah were related too. Also, more about Claire, since she's Emily's niece.
~FigureSk8r13 (Amelia)
FigureSk8r13
Settled in Forks
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:14 pm
Location: USA

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby suzzeeQ » Thu May 12, 2011 6:32 pm

The guide said Claire was Emily's cousin. I'm not sure what page it was on since I gave my copy back to the library, but I distinctly remember it saying cousin. Now I'm not sure if Claire is Emily's niece or cousin.
User avatar
suzzeeQ
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:23 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby BellaMia » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:04 am

Page 174 of Eclipse. Jacob said "Emily had her two nieces down for a visit...and Quil met Claire". Then Bella says "Emily doesn't want her niece with a werewolf?" So Claire is definitely Emily's niece. Emily and Leah are second cousins. See page 122 of Eclipse. The guide pages 330 and 362 said second cousins also. Emily is from the Makah tribe but is Quileute on her mother's side. On the Black family tree, Ephraim Black was married to Martha Young and his father Joseph Black was married to Jane Clearwater. Jane Clearwater is Moses Clearwater's sister and he is Leah's Great Great Grandfather. So maybe there is a connection there somewhere. But interestingly, according to the Uley family tree, Leah and Sam are also distantly related. Leah seems to be related to the entire tribe through the Black, Ateara and Uley lines.
BellaMia
Settled in Forks
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:58 am

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby suzzeeQ » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:05 pm

I understand that. I was just pointing out a mistake in the Guide, which states that Claire is Emily's cousin. I guess my sarcasm didn't come across, I apologize.
User avatar
suzzeeQ
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:23 am
Location: Indiana

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby Openhome » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:59 pm

SuzzeeQ, I got it. Your comment made me giggle!
User avatar
Openhome
Corralling the Cullens while Esme's Away
 
Posts: 2595
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:54 pm
Location: Chatting with Esme and giving her parenting advice

Re: Family Trees: Lineage revealed

Postby Alphie » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:31 pm

Claire is Emily's niece. The guide has a few mistakes and that is one of them. Trust me when I say it eats me alive that THAT particular mistake is in there. Bah.
Image
User avatar
Alphie
Blame me for everything
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Tennessee

Previous

Return to The Last Piece of the Puzzle

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest