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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:21 pm

malaz wrote:
holdingoutforjacob wrote:well malaz honestly i appreciate your opinions but i think you're a little too one-sided about edward. i think it blinds you to other characters.

What exactly did i say that makes me one-sided?
also, i really am not blind as you proberly think so. it's not true. why do you think i am 'blinded? because i don't like jacob?

can someone tell me if there is a topic floating around here...?

I am team edward, team jasper, team emmett and team carlisle...


well you don't see ANY similarities in jacob and edward AT ALL?? not in their values or anything?? i find that to be a little hard to believe. i think that your rosy view of edward and your incredibly passionate love for him tend to warp your view of other characters, and you've said that yourself.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Esme echo » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:35 pm

I've gotten the impression that malaz is fond of hyperbole, but is as reasonable as the next person in reality. Is that so, malaz? :D
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby holdingoutforjacob » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:51 pm

esme echo i didn't say she wasn't reasonable. i didn't say anything she hasn't said herself. i just think that it's hard, when you love one character so much, to draw any parallels with another character you DON'T like. i'm guilty of it too, we all are.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Bronze Haired Girl » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:28 pm

This thread needs to get back on topic please. Let's all take a step back, take a deep breath, and make sure we are calm and rational before posting so that things don't get out of control.

The last topic raised was a couple of pages back so maybe we can get back to that discussion or someone can raise a new topic. Just remember, this is the EDWARD thread.

twilight813 wrote:does anyone think that possibly Edward knew exactly what he was getting himself into with Bella. Do you think that possibly he knew he really wanted her to be a vampire and he "wooed" her so that she would decide to be with him forever. Maybe even being selfish on his part? I dont know, I just re-read twilight and part of me feels that he was putting on an act most of the time to get her to really want to be a vampire. this maybe a confusing question, but i am just wondering what everyone else thinks?
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby KaseyHeartEdward » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:26 am

I don't think Edward knew exactly what he was getting himself into when he fell for Bella. How could he. But i think deep down when he is in love with her. He wanted her to be with him for ever. He was selfish in wanting to be with Bella. Which is apparent in Twilight and New Moon. He never wanted to take her humanity and i believe he will always feel guilty that he did even though he saved her life. He always wanted her to be able to live her life. And he never wanted to take that away from her.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Amethyst1 » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:18 am

holdingoutforjacob wrote:
malaz wrote:
holdingoutforjacob wrote:well malaz honestly i appreciate your opinions but i think you're a little too one-sided about edward. i think it blinds you to other characters.

What exactly did i say that makes me one-sided?
also, i really am not blind as you proberly think so. it's not true. why do you think i am 'blinded? because i don't like jacob?

can someone tell me if there is a topic floating around here...?

I am team edward, team jasper, team emmett and team carlisle...


well you don't see ANY similarities in jacob and edward AT ALL?? not in their values or anything?? i find that to be a little hard to believe. i think that your rosy view of edward and your incredibly passionate love for him tend to warp your view of other characters, and you've said that yourself.

I said, personalities. AS IN...interests, romantic-ism (haha, if that's a word), their style of life, their morals (maybe they have similar ones but then there can be different ones), etc... i don't see how they're the same in anyways.

Please, maybe i don't like jacob but I can't simply ignore facts that i see. it doesn't make a difference really.
Er...when did I ever say that my love for edward blinds me to see clearly other characters?? and that's not true anyways.
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oh, sorry Bronze Haird Girl - we'll get in topic now. but i have to leave for school so i'll do that later, reply to the topic, i mean.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby pubesy » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:45 am

ok. This is a long post. so be warned.

I followed a link from someone's sig, (thanks, it was an interesting read ;) )
http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/what-is-it-about-edward/
http://suburbanbeatnik.livejournal.com/tag/snark
for those of you who do not have the time to follow the links, i will give you a quick synopsis.

The articles compare Edward to an Alpha romance hero, where he "rules and dictates" over the poor flimsy Bella. It describes how disturbing parallels can be drawn between edward/bella and abusive/controlling relationships. and how he "rapes" bella in a symbolic way, making her void of living without him.

I will give you a few quotes, so you get the idea.

[twilight] reminds me of one of those early romances with the virile alpha hero who dominates and controls the too-stupid-to-live girly girl who at first foolishly defies him, because, you know, he's treating her like shoot. Yet within the space of a few hundred pages she learns she can't fight fate, and that Captain Studly only wants the best for her, no matter how much he abuses her.


Bella, the heroine, is not only completely subjugated to the hero, but lacks agency as well. She serves no purpose except to stare goggle-eyed at Edward, argue with him (naturally she's always proven wrong), and to be repeatedly rescued.


Every time he shows up after he’s decided to talk to Bella, he rescues her, and immediately following sweeps in and manages every detail of her life.


she realizes after she gets to school that her father had put chains on her tires early in the morning, before he left and before she woke up, purely to keep her safe. As Belly realizes that her father was quietly watching out for her, an experience she has little familiarity with, in swoops Edward- literally – to save her by bending flying vans to his will. It’s a subtle moment of underscoring: Bella literally travels from her father’s care to Edward’s care in that moment. From then on, Edward saves her over and over again, sweeping in and managing every detail for her. Her father’s role is merely as a figure in the household, and readers of Midnight Sun know that Edward was as much a figure in that household as Charlie, whether Charlie or Bella knew it or not.


His possession of Bella, even in his mind, is complete and total, and her willingness to follow that possession, since he knows what’s best for her, casts her in a sheepish model that I never recovered from as I read Twilight.


Now before you hurl abusive words at the authors, i suggest you give the articles a read yourself. Read them in an objective manner (ie: leave your "love" for edward and all things twilight at the door.)

From a feminist standpoint i understand COMPLETELY where these authors are coming from. From the feminist perspective, the edward/bella relationship literally SCREAMS of alpha male/weak submissive female. Edward can be seen as a dominating, possessive, dictatorial, overprotective, controlling boyfriend. He oversees EVERYTHING bella does, and scrutinizes her every move. he always knows "what is best" for bella, and she will either follow like a weak puppy, or go against edward- only to be proven wrong. The stalker undertone is also quite disturbing.


And i can also see why the feminist followings are disgusted by bella's character. She can be seen as weak, submissive, flimsy and a damsel in distress. she is promoted as being clumsy, good at nothing, ordinary, nothing special, and completely lacking compared to the "dazzling" Edward. She cannot live without him, and recoils into a shell of a character without his presence (which i always found quite disturbing and annoying).
Bella cannot take care of herself. Hell, she can’t even walk on her own. She’s literally carried everywhere by Edward and Jacob and figuratively carried by everyone else. she also needs Edward to keep her alive, daddy to keep her car maintained, Jacob to take the place of Edward in book two because she can’t muster the strength to get over him alone. She is one of those girls who ALWAYS HAS TO HAVE SOMEONE IN HER LIFE. She can never be alone. She is not strong enough to live life without someone else.

I can also see WHY comparisons are made to abusive relationships. Edward had near COMPLETE control over bella. If his intentions were anything but good, she would be in serious danger (vampire or no vampire.) I mean, stephenie even admits this when edward and bella talk in the meadow about their first encounter. In the science lab, when Edward first "smells" bella and thinks of a hundred ways to kill her. (Edward: "I had to run out, to get away before i could speak the words that would make you follow...you would have come." He promised Bella:"Without a doubt.").

If you look at this book as a "role model" for teens, then yes, this book is shockingly disturbing. It screams of possessive, obsessive themes, and the need to have to "change who you are" in order to be with someone.

BUT IT IS FICTION. IT IS JUST A BOOK. It is not a political satire of our modern world. It is not meant to be a role model for young impressionable girls. It is fantasy, and a means of escape for a few hours.

and what is wrong with falling in love with the book and it's characters. What is wrong with wanting to escape into a world where true love conquers all?

I can see where the irresistible lure of edward stems from: he is entirely committed to Bella. In a society where cheating, playing the field, etc, is all to common, it is refreshing to read about a kind compassionate male who would do anything for the one he loves...and he loves only one. Not to mention that that he didn’t want her just as an easy lay - he was just content to lay beside her.


Yes, Edward had Alpha qualities, but i don't necessarily think that is a bad thing: while he was mysterious, his wishes and desires were clear. He wanted Bella. and he made it quite clear to bella that she SHOULDN'T be with him, and that she were free to walk away.

I saw the story more as a forbidden love/ romeo and Juliette story, not a tale of submission.

While i agree - the constant need to protect bella was frustrating at times, I dont believe bella was ever completely submissive - she compromised with edward to gain her own desires. And isn't comprise a valuable life lesson to learn?

It also annoyed me a great deal that edward fond the need to carry/cradle bella everywhere. it drove me INSANE! she has legs! let her use them!




As you all know, I am a massive fan of the books. And of edward/bella. And I like many others here, have fallen for the charms of edward completely! But that does not mean in reality that i would want a relationship with a guy who had the same personality traits as Edward.

I couldn't STAND being in such a protective relationship, where my every waking (and sleeping) moment was in his company. Where i had to change my own identity in order to be with a person. Where he attempted to chose my friends (for whatever reason). I don't like when guys try to tell me the "know what is best" for me - even if they are right. I like being independent and being able to be self sufficient, if need be. I would never be that girl who falls to absolute pieces and considers attempting suicide when he tells me he "doesn't want me." I like a bit of privacy every now and then too! I like relationships to be about "you" and "me" and not always "us" and "we" - I like having interests, friends and activities separate from my relationships - and i like he to have the same. Edward/Bella never had this

but at the same time, there were alot of characteristics i LOVED - like his undying and complete commitment to his girl, his ability to compromise - even when he didn't want to, and his COMPLETE respect of bella.



I will finis wih another qoute:
Also, and not particularly on topic, I’d like to throw out a message of support to Stephenie. Never in the history of writing, as far as I know, has an author been so excoriated by so many. She wrote a novel. She didn’t harm little children, betray her country or become an axe murderer. But wow has she been ganged up on in a holy shoot and (not on this site but almost everywhere else) very personal way, with people questioning her motives, her morals, her religion, etc. etc., which really fries my bananas. Absolutely every reader has the right to express her opinion and thank goodness for it!! But I can’t even imagine how much all the personal attacks must hurt and I wish I could send her a hug or three
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby glstewart » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:18 am

Kachiti wrote:Malaz,

Sorry off topic but I love the last part of signature. That cracked me up, Justin didn't get the memo. :lol:



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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby twilight813 » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:29 am

to go back to my own question before, i started reading MS and i am almost done with it, and i answered my own question. Edward genuinely fell in love with Bella and I think that his behavior, because it was soo new to him, made it look like in Twilight that he may have been doing things on purpose. But actually he had never felt this before and he was just overwhelmed by it. MS really helped me out a little to see how Edward really felt.
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Re: Edward Cullen

Postby Kachiti » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:03 am

pubesy wrote:ok. This is a long post. so be warned.

I followed a link from someone's sig, (thanks, it was an interesting read ;) )
http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/what-is-it-about-edward/
http://suburbanbeatnik.livejournal.com/tag/snark



Pubesy, I to was given the link but choose not to look at it because I knew what it would say.


pubesy wrote:From a feminist standpoint i understand COMPLETELY where these authors are coming from. From the feminist perspective, the edward/bella relationship literally SCREAMS of alpha male/weak submissive female. Edward can be seen as a dominating, possessive, dictatorial, overprotective, controlling boyfriend. He oversees EVERYTHING bella does, and scrutinizes her every move. he always knows "what is best" for bella, and she will either follow like a weak puppy, or go against edward- only to be proven wrong. The stalker undertone is also quite disturbing.


And i can also see why the feminist followings are disgusted by bella's character. She can be seen as weak, submissive, flimsy and a damsel in distress. she is promoted as being clumsy, good at nothing, ordinary, nothing special, and completely lacking compared to the "dazzling" Edward. She cannot live without him, and recoils into a shell of a character without his presence (which i always found quite disturbing and annoying).
Bella cannot take care of herself. Hell, she can’t even walk on her own. She’s literally carried everywhere by Edward and Jacob and figuratively carried by everyone else. she also needs Edward to keep her alive, daddy to keep her car maintained, Jacob to take the place of Edward in book two because she can’t muster the strength to get over him alone. She is one of those girls who ALWAYS HAS TO HAVE SOMEONE IN HER LIFE. She can never be alone. She is not strong enough to live life without someone else.

I can see where the irresistible lure of edward stems from: he is entirely committed to Bella. In a society where cheating, playing the field, etc, is all to common, it is refreshing to read about a kind compassionate male who would do anything for the one he loves...and he loves only one. Not to mention that that he didn’t want her just as an easy lay - he was just content to lay beside her.

While i agree - the constant need to protect bella was frustrating at times, I dont believe bella was ever completely submissive - she compromised with edward to gain her own desires. And isn't comprise a valuable life lesson to learn?

but at the same time, there were alot of characteristics i LOVED - like his undying and complete commitment to his girl, his ability to compromise - even when he didn't want to, and his COMPLETE respect of bella.



I will finis wih another qoute:
"Also, and not particularly on topic, I’d like to throw out a message of support to Stephenie. Never in the history of writing, as far as I know, has an author been so excoriated by so many. She wrote a novel. She didn’t harm little children, betray her country or become an axe murderer. But wow has she been ganged up on in a holy shoot and (not on this site but almost everywhere else) very personal way, with people questioning her motives, her morals, her religion, etc. etc., which really fries my bananas. Absolutely every reader has the right to express her opinion and thank goodness for it!! But I can’t even imagine how much all the personal attacks must hurt and I wish I could send her a hug or three


As one of those independent women, I agree with a lot of this. It is a wonderful work of fiction and nothing more. I rarely read modern romance novel because its not romance its just a sex novel. Gone are the virtues that were once held dear. That's why the whole Edward and Bella relationship is so refreshing, that and the whole vampire allure. Someone posted that Twilight wasn't love at first sight but lust at first sight. I said it was neither, the first time he saw her he wanted to eat her. I to saw Bella as weak and Edward as too dominating, when I started to read Twilight but it was when I got to the part where Bella takes off to meet James I changed my mind. Someone who is weak and submissive doesn't go off to meet a killer to save the ones she loves. She doesn't try to argue her point.

Also, I don't think Edward sees her personality as weak, her human body as compare to a vampire's is fragile and that's why he's so protective. I mean the boy is scared silly and so does some stupid things. Once Bella became a vampire, that whole protective side of him matures into a more positive nature.

There is so much more I want to say but I have to go to work. I end with this, Love has a way of changing a person sometimes for the good and sometimes bad.
Frustrated love has been the incentive for many great works.
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