Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by Twilightgroupie »

Ok, maybe I am the only person who thinks this, but I got really mad at Bella because she felt very selfish to me. She says she loves Edward, he left her so she bonded/fell in love with Jacob. But I think what really bothered me was that she wanted her cake and to eat it too. She had just told Edward that she would marry him and then she kisses Jacob? HUH? And I wanted Edward to get mad about it. I guess she never really had to decide between the two of them. Maybe I am a masacist, but I thought someone should have a broken heart? But no did. Edward holds her why she mourns what might have been with Jacob (he is a better vampire than me). For me, Edward's character arc would have been up if he would have told her to decide or shown some hurt of pain. It would be for me the first time we see Edward care about a little self preservation but I know he gave her what she wanted. Sometime Bella's crying got to me between Jacob and Edward. She never wanted to hurt Jacob but it WAS ALWAYS AT EDWARD'S EXPENSE. He kept saying she choose Edward, but really she was choosing Jacob....

I guess I just got upset with Jake because he never respected her boundaries and got the hint. He never cared about hurting Edward. But Edward cared about what happen to him. He only fought dirty when he knew Jake saw outside the tent. Those are just some of my annoyances with Jacob and Bella.

By BD, I was over too much of Jacob and I wanted Edward to resurface and be the Edward we all loved but she sort of faded into the background and became minor towards the end of the book It feels like SM feel in love with Jacob and let him reign in BD and she couldn't bring herself to break his heart. I think the book may have been better for it.
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by Edward_Addict »

Le sigh.
Bella and Jacob.
Where to begin?
Well, like many of you have already posted, I think the Bella/Jacob relationship just changed SO abruptly in BD that it left my head spinning. Ok ok I understand how intense the whole imprinting thing is supposed to be and how it would automatically overpower whatever feelings Jake has for Bella, but is that the same effect that turning into a vamp had on Bella and her feelings for Jacob? Suddenly she's a vampire and her love and passion for Edward increased exponentially after she woke up, that whatever part of her that was in love with Jacob disappeared? Yes she still cared about him but she wasn't IN LOVE with him like in NM/Eclipse. And I thought it was a little awkward when Jacob was at the wedding, still obviously in love with her, but how did Bella feel about him at that time? Still in love too? That part is not really explained that well. And once Renesmee came along, what did Bella and Jacob think of that passionate kiss they once shared? What the heck will Renesmee think when she realizes HER Jacob was once madly in love with and made out with her MOM?! Double ick. I just think there needed to be a little bit of a smoother transition or more acknowledgment of the changes in how they felt, at least for the readers' sake... but maybe that's just my need to resolve things.
Either way, no matter how odd I find the relationship between Jake and Renesmee, I'm still glad that everything worked out for Bella, Edward, and Jacob. Reading Book 2 of BD nearly broke my heart when Jacob saw how happy the little vampire family was going to be when Edward first heard Renesmee's thoughts, and then when Jake was trying to keep Bella's heart beating and he thought she died. Ugh! Even though I was NEVER on team Jacob, I still felt so bad for him. So like I said, yay for happy endings all around! :D
Last edited by Edward_Addict on Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by switzgal »

Here's a Jacob and Bella song. Let's sing along...

You're My Best Friend - Queen

(Jacob- singing to Bella)
Ooo. you make me live
whatever this world can give to me
It's you, you're all I see
Ooo, you make me live now honey
Ooo, you make me live

(Bella- singing to Jacob)
You're the best friend
that I ever had
I've been with you such a long time
You're my sunshine
And I want you to know
That my feelings are true
I really love you
You're my best friend

(Jacob- singing to Bella)
Ooo, you make me live
I've been wandering round
But I still come back to you
In rain or shine
You've stood by me girl
I'm happy, happy at home
You're my best friend.

(Jacob-singing to Bella)
You're the first one
When things turn out bad
You know I'll never be lonely
You're my only one
And I love
The things that you do
You're my best friend

(Bella- singing to Jacob)
Ooo, you make me live.
I'm happy, happy at home
You're my best friend
You're my best friend
Ooo, you make me live
You, you're my best friend.
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by Sameerah »

Well I think that Bella's abit confused about her feelings for Jacob. In NM, Jacob became Bella's sun. Without Edward around, Jacob made Bella realize that she has a life to live, that she can still be happy. Jacob was like her shock absorber, he made her smile and he was always with her. Of course she knew that she loved Edward, but in NM, Edward was more like a memory. Jacob was there, real and available. She was fond of him and they had a great time together. Bella realized that she needed Jacob in her life because he was a good friend. He was her bestfriend. But of course, when Edward was back, things changed with Bella knowing how the werewolves felt about her vampire family. It was hard to say goodbye to someone you have learned to like a lot and you've considered to be an important part of you. In Eclipse, she has to figure something out. And I'm glad that she was able to examine her feelings and realized that she couldn't live without Edward. She loved Jacob like a brother, like family.

Jacob, loved Bella and he believed that he is the right one for her. What I like about him is that, he never left Bella's side even if he's hurting. He loved her, but still, he let her find her own happiness. He knew that Bella's happiness was with Edward. He was in pain, he did show he was hurt, but he never left. He has a very unselfish love.
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by primkim »

Eclipse left me so confused and torn. I truly believe in Edward and Bella. So when the idea of Bella being in love with Jacob came into the picture, I just can't grasp it.

Stephenie Meyer explained this situation in her FAQ:
Question #5. Her Answer: First of all, let me say that I do believe in true love. But I also deeply believe in the complexity, variety, and downright insanity of love. A lucky person loves hundreds of people in their lives, all in different ways, family love, friendship love, romantic love, all in so many shades and depths. I don't think you lose your ability—or right—to have true love by loving more than one person. In part, this is true because you never love two people the same way. Another part is that, if you're lucky, you learn to love better with practice. The bottom line is that you have to choose who you are going to commit to—that's the foundation of true love, not a lack of other options.

Next, Bella does not fall in love with Jacob in Eclipse. Bella falls in love with Jacob in New Moon. I think it's easy to understand why this fact doesn't occur to her. Bella has only fallen in love one time, and it was a very sudden, dramatic, sweep-you-off-your-feet, change-your-world, magical, passionate, all-consuming thing (see: Twilight). Can you blame her for not recognizing a much more subtle kind of falling-in-love?

Does this love devaluate her love for Edward? Not for me. For me, it makes that perfect true love stronger. Bella has another option. She has a really good one. An option that's easier in many ways, that takes nothing—like her family, present or future—away from her. She would have love, and friendship, and family—an enviable human future. But she chooses Edward over all of this. This makes it real for me.
I myself has been struggling about how could you possibly fall in-love with another person, when you knew in your heart that you have already loved another person so much before, and that you could say that you already gave him your all. Is there anymore left of you to give? How is falling in-love all over again possible? Will it be the same kind of love and intensity? How would you know if you're whole enough to be fair for the new person?

I idolize Bella for her trust in her heart. That's all I can say.
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by footloose »

primkim, i'm confused with that concept too, but with different reason. Actually, I believe that falling for 2 men at the same time is not uncommon (or else, we won't have divorces and adultery and breakups). The problem in this story is that it gives an impression of Bella's love for Edward as something stronger than average human love. It seems that way at the beginning of NM when she acts as if her husband has died, but after she meets Jacob, she gets distracted in no time...just like any other girl would. I know that we must also factor the fact that she thinks Edward wants her no more, but I had expected her to take much, much longer time to like another guy. And I really don't think she considers Jacob merely as a brother: in Eclipse, she actually goes as far as telling Edward to "fight" to make her forget Jacob. TO FIGHT, for goodness sake. The guy she said she cannot live without, the guy she claims as her existence, was told to FIGHT, to COMPETE with a guy she spent time with for just a couple of months. So much for "no competition" (tm Bella) :roll:

again, I'm not saying that loving 2 men at the same time is unrealistic/impossible. I'm just saying that in the context of Bella and Edward's relationship, it's just...well...confusing.
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by blue-eyed-bella »

I agree with that, mostly.

I think a lot of people forget that Bella is only eighteen. And even though she acts very mature and all (especially around Edward who is almost a hundred years older than her) she is still just a teenage girl. Jacob was kind of her escape from all the maturity and other elements of her relationship with Edward. Not that she didn't enjoy that... it's just that no teenager can be mature all the time and handle a love stronger than average human love all the time.

So I don't really find her love for Jacob and Edward at the same time confusing. Bella herself says at one part of the book that she's two different people depending on which one of them she is with. Bella sort of has a split personality in NM and Eclipse--the girl who cooks dinner for her father, took care of her mother, does well in school, doesn't do drugs/smoking/etc. and then the girl who rides motorcycles and jumps off cliffs. Because there's such a big difference between these two parts of Bella I think it actually kind of makes sense for her to be in love with two different people--it's not like it's the same amount of love for both of them, anyway.

I was happy that at the end of Breaking Dawn she "lost" one of those personalities, yet still has Edward, as a lover, and Jacob as a brother.
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by holdingoutforjacob »

First off, someone said they were confused as to why, when Bella met Jacob, how she could be distracted from him so quickly.... are you kidding me?

It really bothered me that while SM certainly put time into Jacob and Bella's friendship and relationship, she put no effort into the aftermath, or explaining or showing changes. In a span of like, 30 pages Bella realizes she's in love with Jacob, tells him this, tells him she can only be with Edward, is hysterical (and he comforts her which not only is weird to me it totally bugs me) and then is over it. And then by the beginning of BD she's so over it she wants him at the wedding??? and refers to him as her "best man"??? did SM forget that she wasn't even going to invite him to the wedding in Eclipse??

I found the change in their relationship to be startling in BD too, for different reasons. Being inside Jacob's head, we could really see how he was dealing with things. It was interesting, to me at least, to see how he was getting over her. It seemed to be really realistic. But then, he imprints, and all of a sudden - BAM! No more affection for Bella?? Sam still loves Leah.... i don't get it.

I realize that Jacob's "gravitational pull" towards Bella during her pregnancy was because of Nessie, but his feelings weren't. It simply doesn't make sense.

death cannot stop true love, it can only delay it for a while...
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by primkim »

Amazing insights. I'm starting to grasp it now that I know that I'm not so alone in the confusion.

Although I must apologize for not indicating in my post that I haven't read BD =D. I think some of the responses gave too much away, and me ending up reading too far ahead. hahaha it's ok, though. I'm glad to hear your thoughts.

As for loving two people at the same time, I think I understand Bella's actions a little better now. After reading footloose's and blue-eyed-bella's posts, I went back to some chapters of NM and Eclipse. I realized that her actions developed as result of her coping mechanisms from Edward's departure. Bella indeed have loved Jacob. But again, it was not the same as her love for Edward.

What did you guys think about Bella's statement in Ch26 - Ethics in Eclipse when She and Jacob were talkign about the "worst parts"? She was telling him that she pictured the life they would've lived together, but she also said, "But I can't and it's killing me.It's like Sam and Emily, Jake--I never had a choice...". What did she mean she didn't have a choice? Did she "imprint" on Edward?
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Re: Jacob and Bella's changing relationship

Post by Lacuna Scion »

Hm... I think I understand some of the chaos within their relationship. It's just hard to verbalize. For starters, I think that Bella was probably meant for Edward, despite the fact that their relationship is unhealthy on so many levels. :? And just because I say it, doesn't mean I'm happy about it; I'm still a little ambiguous. Secondly, there's definitely more to Jake and Bella than friendship or brother/sister love.

To me, Jake is like soul food :D . He just makes you feel good, and more than just a "friendship" way. Edward is like crack; he makes you feel good but probably not in a very healthy way. I can see where she would want to hold onto both Edward and Jacob because she obviously cares deeply for them.

And maybe it's just because I'm thinking in the context of BD's plot but I feel that if Bella had chosen Jacob, well, I just don't know where else Edward would fit into the equation. He'd be free to go off and do his own vampire thing while Bella started her life with Jake (whether or not he would have gone away is another matter entirely). But because of Nessie and the evolving nature of Bella and Jake's relationship she gets both of them. And I know that's WAY selfish, but love kind of does ugly things to people.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't see Bella and Edward on a purely friendship plane. I can only visualize them as a couple. I find it easier to see Jake letting Bella go and be happy, but still able to be her friend. Not in the sense that Jake is the bigger man, but maybe? :?: Does that make sense?

Although I must say I am glad that Edward was able to deal with Bella while she made her decision and he even comforted her throughout it. He should incredible maturity and tact (like that's a surprise); he just tolerated it a lot better than I would have thought. What bothered me was Bella's handling of the whole deal. She knew she had to break Jake but instead of gently letting go of the glass ball and let it shatter gently on the floor, she heaved it across the room onto a jagged nail-covered wall. :(

I also think her being distracted by Jake during NM is a testament to his overall goodness and not knock on her love for Edward. As has been pointed out, loving two people at once is not uncommon. But it gets unusually super complicated when such super-creatures are involved. I don't view multiple loves as a betrayal to anyone else you may love. I don't think you love any two people the same and everyone has these little... love niches I guess you could call them... that need to be filled. Back to the food analogy: You can't live off mashed potatoes and collard greens; likewise you can't live off crack.
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