Re: Alice and Jasper
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:32 pm
I won't quote the post, seeing as it's already quite long, but allow me to explain.
As far as the last point- Alice would see what to do that would please him best. That's all I'll say.
Regarding Bella telling Edward not to take her away in Twilight (re: James), he was too intent on keeping her away from James that he couldn't see where she was going with her argument. You have to remember that he can't read her mind, and she is after all a human- why would she come up with something his incredible mind couldn't? Once Bella got her idea out, he does make concessions to its virtue. Alice certainly did, which helped change his mind. (Truthfully, had it been Alice in danger, Jasper would probably have told her to run while he killed/destroyed the threat himself.)
Just to clarify- I was saying that Jasper could be quite overbearingly protective, but Alice keeps him in line. Alice is his whole world- he would do anything for her, just as Edward would do for Bella. It's not 100% the same, but again: Jasper wanted to kill Bella to protect Alice in Twilight; he wanted to catch up to them in Volterra in New Moon; he threatens Jacob at the party in Eclipse because Jacob was too close to Alice, and he also gets hurt because he tried to make sure Alice didn't have to do much in the fight with the newborns. Alice even chides him for that: "Overprotective fool."
I think the main reason that the Alice/Jasper and Edward/Bella relationships are viewed differently is the fact that Bella is human. She is the martyr who doesn't want anyone to see her pain, so she views Edward's overprotectiveness through those eyes, and we see him "colored" that way because of her point of view. We don't really see the Alice/Jasper relationship because we're not treated to their points-of-view- just sidelines from Edward or Bella. Take from that as you will- not trying to change your viewpoint, just illustrating mine.
As for Bella and the selfless/selfish thing, I can see how she'd be viewed either way. In my opinion, there's only one thing that she's selfish with- and that's Edward. But even with him, she commits actions to let him off the hook- trying to make it easier for him to be around her for example.
I do have to disagree with you regarding the scene in New Moon, after Alice talks to Jasper over the phone and lies to him. She tells Bella she can't have him get hurt- even if it means that she, Bella, and Edward would die. Bella would have tried to figure something out to prevent this, but there wasn't time.
Also, Bella being changed in Eclipse- I also disagree. As you said, Alice would have forseen anything "dangerous" (or in her mind, "stupid") that Bella would do, and worked to prevent it- such as going to Seattle herself. And if you recall, there is a scene in the cafeteria where Bella does suggest they change her so she could help in the fight. Alice was the one who told her it would be the opposite of helpful- she'd be a newborn, relying on instinct alone, likely getting herself into more trouble and Edward would get hurt trying to keep her safe. So there really was no way for Bella to go and become a vampire if the intention was to help during the fight.
As far as the last point- Alice would see what to do that would please him best. That's all I'll say.
Regarding Bella telling Edward not to take her away in Twilight (re: James), he was too intent on keeping her away from James that he couldn't see where she was going with her argument. You have to remember that he can't read her mind, and she is after all a human- why would she come up with something his incredible mind couldn't? Once Bella got her idea out, he does make concessions to its virtue. Alice certainly did, which helped change his mind. (Truthfully, had it been Alice in danger, Jasper would probably have told her to run while he killed/destroyed the threat himself.)
Just to clarify- I was saying that Jasper could be quite overbearingly protective, but Alice keeps him in line. Alice is his whole world- he would do anything for her, just as Edward would do for Bella. It's not 100% the same, but again: Jasper wanted to kill Bella to protect Alice in Twilight; he wanted to catch up to them in Volterra in New Moon; he threatens Jacob at the party in Eclipse because Jacob was too close to Alice, and he also gets hurt because he tried to make sure Alice didn't have to do much in the fight with the newborns. Alice even chides him for that: "Overprotective fool."
I think the main reason that the Alice/Jasper and Edward/Bella relationships are viewed differently is the fact that Bella is human. She is the martyr who doesn't want anyone to see her pain, so she views Edward's overprotectiveness through those eyes, and we see him "colored" that way because of her point of view. We don't really see the Alice/Jasper relationship because we're not treated to their points-of-view- just sidelines from Edward or Bella. Take from that as you will- not trying to change your viewpoint, just illustrating mine.
As for Bella and the selfless/selfish thing, I can see how she'd be viewed either way. In my opinion, there's only one thing that she's selfish with- and that's Edward. But even with him, she commits actions to let him off the hook- trying to make it easier for him to be around her for example.
I do have to disagree with you regarding the scene in New Moon, after Alice talks to Jasper over the phone and lies to him. She tells Bella she can't have him get hurt- even if it means that she, Bella, and Edward would die. Bella would have tried to figure something out to prevent this, but there wasn't time.
Also, Bella being changed in Eclipse- I also disagree. As you said, Alice would have forseen anything "dangerous" (or in her mind, "stupid") that Bella would do, and worked to prevent it- such as going to Seattle herself. And if you recall, there is a scene in the cafeteria where Bella does suggest they change her so she could help in the fight. Alice was the one who told her it would be the opposite of helpful- she'd be a newborn, relying on instinct alone, likely getting herself into more trouble and Edward would get hurt trying to keep her safe. So there really was no way for Bella to go and become a vampire if the intention was to help during the fight.