Agreed. Bella certainly has her faults, and does her fair share of hurtful, stupid, selfish, and wrong things, in this love triangle situation and in life in general. But she, like Jacob, is human, and young. To truly compare either of them to Edward, who's NOT human, and who's not young is utterly unfair.ringswraith wrote:Just because Bella falls even a little bit for Jacob does not make her... an "easy woman." She's human. It happens. Now, comparing her to Edward and saying that he'll never kiss another girl or fall in love with someone else? Guess what? He's not human. That's not a fair comparison to Bella.
I always get crap for saying things like this, but I totally agree, again. This series does, however, bring up real issues that are good and interesting to discuss. Sometimes I enjoy looking at it and thinking "if this happened for real..." but that sort of discussion always seems to start problems.ringswraith wrote:Next, I shudder to think of just how many people read this series and think that love is supposed to be like this. And, by extension, what kind of "lesson" kids are getting from reading it. If you cannot separate reality from fantasy, that's a much bigger issue that cannot be addressed here. This is a work of fiction, not an instructional work.
Some of this I disagree with, and some we're on the same page. I suppose you could say Jacob was controlling, if you wanted. But I would like to say this, about the specific example you used. Alice and the Cullens had left, and left Bella in quite a state too. And I would also like to point out that when she decided to go, he let her go. He has a right to feel angry, hurt, betrayed, to not want her to go, any emotion he wants and it's not being controlling. Plus, Bella doesn't always have the best decision making skills, nor the best danger assessment skills, correct?ringswraith wrote:Jacob became quite obsessive and controlling in his own right. Like when he realized a vampire (Alice, it turns out) was in Bella's home and he wanted to take her away, even after she told him she knew who was there. He may have been "healthier" in a sense, but I don't think he's necessarily "better" than Edward. I like to think that, if Edward were human and brought up in the same time as Jacob, they'd end up quite a bit alike. Jacob exists to show Bella that she has that option, the option to stay human, and be human, and remain with her human friends and family- and to illustrate to her just what she's giving up in order to be with Edward.
It's interesting that you bring up the time period that Edward was raised in. I tried to bring up the point some time ago that maybe the reason that when Edward was scared and desperate, he resorted to something so outlandish and so wrong in today's society IS when he was brought up. In the early 1900s, it wouldn't have been considered all that wrong to lock a woman up if a man felt it necessary. I'm NOT saying that Edward thought his actions were right - he admits they were wrong. What I'm saying is that maybe, because he was so desperate, he crossed a line that should NEVER be crossed today but could have been crossed then - reverted to his instincts.
Please understand. I'm fully aware that Edward views men and women as equal, that he's grown and changed amazingly considering the different time periods he's had to span, the different views he's had to adapt to. And I want to agree with you, Rings, that Edward and Jake would be very similar if raised in the same time period. Maybe not in personality, but certainly in morals and values and principles. I think, in many respects, they're already very similar in these ways. I think the way they carry out their beliefs would be more similar were they raised at the same time.
This is my LEAST favorite theory out there. You'd be surprised how many people are quick to jump at the "Jacob and Bella were only in love because of Renesmee" bandwagon. It's almost a relief to some people, as if the fact that they were just in love is horrifying, and somehow dirties her love with Edward.ringswraith wrote:About "Jacob's Bella" being Renesmee: She (Renesmee) wasn't even around at the time of New Moon or Eclipse, so how is that reasoning made? Now if you meant during the pregnancy, that's a bit different, but it sounds as if you're equating Bella's falling for Jacob to being due to someone who doesn't exist at that point in the story.[/color]