Okay, you might need a packed lunch for this!
Violet Sunlight wrote:Okay. Dear Corona, I think I answered this before but I have more reasons. Jacob shows kindness to everyone who is not trying to kill Bella. This is a list of people he shows kindness to before and/or after being a wolf (excluding the Cullens) though he eventually does that too: Bella of course, especially her father Charlie; Bella’s teenage High School friends, his pack, especially his best-friends Quil & Embry and later Leah & Seth, Little Claire, Emily, Kim.
Actually, we don't know what Jake's reaction would be to any of her school friends because, apart from Mike at the movie, he never interacts with any of them. There is no scene in which he engages in conversation with any of them apart from Mike. And as you pointed out yourself, at that point he is less than polite. And I do not believe he was mean to Mike because he was trying to defend Bella from his nefarious advances. He was just showing off. He was actually quite rude, and stooped to Mike's level by engaging in that way.
The only other time he ever interacted with anyone else was the school principal, to whom he was also rude.
Of course he is going to be polite to Charlie. He is Bella's dad and his dad's friend. It won't do much good to be rude to him. And he's hardly going to be mean to his friends, is he?
Violet Sunlight wrote:Sam when Jacob becomes Alpha he explains how he would not dream to fight his brother for the Head Alpha Spot that so rightfully belongs by my beloved mongrel.
Unfortunately it seems that Jake's reasons for this are less than noble. As he says himself, "I didn't want to be in a pack, much less its leader." The real reason he refuses to take the position of Alpha when Sam offers it to him is that he doesn't want the responsibility.
Violet Sunlight wrote:Come to think of it, I think he was rude to one human the whole Saga and that was Mike Newton
And, as I said above, that's because he didn't talk to any normal humans, apart from Charlie and the principal. One he's going to be polite to, the other he wasn't polite to at all. So of the three people outside the supernatural world who he speaks with in the saga he is rude to two of them.
Violet Sunlight wrote:Now, getting back to your quote. This is where my pup made a huge mistake, and again he did it for Bella.
Partially for Bella. Partially for himself. He had plenty of self interest in keeping her away from Edward. He knew it would mean that he got her instead.
Violet Sunlight wrote:Bella and Jacob were both very wrong in entering into any understanding where they were under the illusion the other would comply.
Yes, and this is where the difference lies between their ways of responding to this error of judgement. Bella acknowledges that she hurt everyone because of her actions, causing her guilt and regret. Jacob just says that he's glad he did it and he'd do it again, refusing to acknowledge that he did anything wrong.
Violet Sunlight wrote:Her solution works nicely for me, and in my opinion is what made the series a phenomena.
Actually, large numbers of fans have huge problems with Jake imprinting on Renesmee, which is what I think you're referring to. I don't have a problem with it, but a lot of people on all teams were unhappy with it.
Violet Sunlight wrote:I think we are going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to Jacob’s extreme behavior style.
Violet Sunlight wrote: He is a Soldier fighting to save her and a Loving Dog trying to win her romantic affections.
Even soldiers have standards of behaviour. The saying "All's fair in love and war" is not true. Some things are not allowed in wars. This is why people are tried for war crimes. Jacob's inability to accept that he committed any wrong is refusing to play by the rules of behaviour which we all share. I certainly try and follow these rules. These rules say that we should apologise for misdemeanors. Jacob does not get an out on behaving appropriately just because he is a soldier fighting a valiant fight. His fighting is too dirty to qualify on that score, anyway.
Violet Sunlight wrote:The Cullens are not ending the life of a cat they are ending a precious human life, Bella’s life, our beloved mongrel’s heart.
That is, of course, a matter of opinion. That it is Jacob's opinion, and even Edward's (until the events of BD) is clear. But vampires do live. When it comes to Twilight's vampires prejudice is, in the end, the only thing that decrees that they do not live. It is hard to call Carlisle's life, for example, anything other than life lived to the fullest for the most noble of reasons.
Violet Sunlight wrote:But, like I have been saying and believed always, this is nor mere mongrel. This is a state of the art, hero. The rarest, kind. Then at the wedding, my beloved defeated mongrel is saying goodbye because he understands for Bella to have her happily ever after with Edward she must be changed. And he is well aware that the wedding is the nail in her coffin. And he has to say goodbye to his romantic love and his best-friend forever. Because her heart beats are numbered.
And to his horror finds out that not only will her life be ended by a monster, not only will she experience an excruciating change because of the monster, oh yes she will die torturously at her honeymoon at the hands of the very same monster who is taking her life. And mongrel had enough and his sanity cracked.
I agree with you on this, although others here will not. I believe Jacob showed up at the wedding with the best intentions, but was unable to control himself.
Violet Sunlight wrote:monsters that have robbed him of his position in Bella’s life
That's definitely a matter of opinion. It could far more easily be argued that he was robbing Edward of his position in Bella's life. After all, Jacob is the one trying to steal her away.
Violet Sunlight wrote:monsters that have helped Bella schedule her death.
Again, debatable, as per my above remarks.
Violet Sunlight wrote:monsters that have been the Mortal Enemy of his people since as far back as they can remember.
But monsters that his own grandfather made a treaty with because he recognised their behaviour was inconsistent with normal cold ones. They would not have had the opportunity to make the treaty if the Cullens had been normal vampires. There were enough of them to destroy Ephraim's pack.
Violet Sunlight wrote:The very core of Jacob’s beliefs that make him who he is. And this is only, the beginning, of what our lovely Bella will ask of him. And thank goodness he does not spare his cordialness, because Bella & I know we are stretching him too far already. And, like I have learned on this site. And as Bella & I learned long ago, as long as her heart is beating, try as Edward might, our lovely Bella gets hurt.
Most frequently by Jacob himself.
Violet Sunlight wrote:And Edward loves Bella so much, that every time she is in bloody pieces on a hospital Bed or on the floor, he becomes almost as fragile as she does. Bella’s stitched up heart needs our loyal, courageous, beloved, mongrel, to the end, to the bloody end. Until Bella’s heart stops beating. We will never, give him up before then. And we make no apology for it.
Edward saves Bella more times than Jacob does. In fact, Jacob only saves her when Edward isn't around. For all the other times (and there are plenty) it's Edward who does the saving.
Violet Sunlight wrote:And you say I should not forgive his extreme behavior.
He's not asking for anyone's forgiveness. He doesn't think he needs it.
Violet Sunlight wrote:No. I beg to differ, in my opinion, Jacob was not extreme enough.
If this is truly what you believe, then it is clear that we have major differences in our belief systems.
Violet Sunlight wrote:His weakness is indulging Bella’s every whim. My beloved mongrel was much to kind to the monsters that were before him. To offer even the sound of his voice to them was more than cordial. My beloved mongrel was far to kind, far to kind. And this is only a part of what my new epiphany has shown me.
I'm sorry, but this statement is nothing short of untrue. Jacob is rarely nice to anyone once Edward returns. He is even rude to Bella on numerous occasions. Being rude to the woman he loves is not good, and I don't think many people can justify it.
Violet Sunlight wrote:What my beloved pup did, was no small thing. He was the firefighter, that went into the burning building, when her father helplessly could not go in. And everyone else ran the opposite way.
Actually the books says that they did try to help her at first: "She didn't call her friends back, and after a while, they stopped calling."
Violet Sunlight wrote:Then he was the hospital, the physical and mental therapist and her best-friend.
Actually, Jake never went near her until she came to him to get him to fix the bikes so she could see Edward.
Violet Sunlight wrote:All, before he romantically ever loved her.
He had plenty of reason to be obliging. Crushes do that. He didn't mind spending time with her!
Violet Sunlight wrote: Imagine if she would have let him fully love her, like his woman.
Yes, and when he was in full-fledged love, what did he do? Insult her. Tell her she was a fool. Manipulate her into kissing him, and continually insult the man she really wanted to be with. It reminds me of Miss Bingley insulting Elizabeth Bennett in front of Mr Darcy. As Jane Austen says, "angry people are not always wise" and in the end it causes Darcy to say, "what gave no one any pain but herself".
Violet Sunlight wrote: And what makes me angry is, where in the world is everyone one else who had a crush on her, when she was her 100% best? I’ll tell you where, they were a Big Disappointing No Show.
By the time we come on the scene, yes. But Charlie suggests that they tried. I can't imagine someone like Angela Weber giving up too soon. And Mike knows he's in with a chance now Edward has gone. I think he would have been quite insistent. And, as a matter of fact, Jacob wasn't there either. He doesn't come on the scene until Bella seeks him out so that he can fix the motorcycles for her ... so she can see Edward.
Violet Sunlight wrote:My pup could not and would not back down. His impecable lineage is one of the many things that made him a state of the art Protector/Carer for Human Life. And more so when it was his beloved. I will say it again, My pup is strong enough and sensitive enough to be around the sick and hurting.
Mike was pretty sick at the movie and he wasn't exactly sensitive then, was he?
Violet Sunlight wrote:Even when everyone else is to scared or unqualified. Even when his hurt is hurting terribly, his strenght does not falter. Obviously, anyone can be around the healthy and the beautiful. But, it takes a special someone to see past the horridness of sickness. And not even my Beloved Edward is strong enough to endure and stay strong at the same time. That takes humanity.
Edward does endure. He endures Bella visiting Jacob, endures separation from her for what he thinks will be her benefit. He allows her to make her decision about who she wants, backing off when he realises his actions are hurting her, something Jacob never does. He's quite happy to hurt her until it is manifestly clear he has lost the fight.
Violet Sunlight wrote:And this makes me wonder if Bella would have walked into Forks High School for the first time in her horrid condition. Unable, to keep conversation well, would my beloved Edward pursue her. Because vampires are attracted to extraordinarily beautiful people. And Bella was beautiful. Edward said it there is a long line of people jocking for his spot. But would her soul be enough to lure him. I wonder.
If her soul was beautiful (as it is) I'm sure it would. The MS draft (which I will not quote here because I know some people have avoided reading it) makes it clear that it was not just her face that attracted him. He is not shallow enough to be attracted by just a pretty face.
Violet Sunlight wrote:Seth tolerates the cullens for the newborn fight, not before. And becomes Edward"s friend after the win.
Actually there is no evidence of what Seth's viewpoint was prior to the fight. The only snippet we get is that he grew a little skittish when a bit too close to the Cullens at one stage. And the others also fought with the Cullens and it doesn't seem to have changed their viewpoint very much. No, I believe Seth's viewpoint changed because he is open minded and objective enough to respond to what he sees in Edward's character while at the campsite with Bella and Edward. In fact, this had to have surfaced before the fight, because he follows Edward's instruction to "go" initially, probably because he had laid out a plan in his mind, and he trusted Edward, simply through that one word, to follow through with this plan. A very trusting, open minded soul.
Now, as your epiphany seems to have led you to believe that Jacob is beyond fault, I would like to ask you what you make of his behaviour when he is about to carry Bella to the campsite. In fact, I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this. I'm talking about the time when he comes to pick Bella up and knocks her legs out from under her, catching her just before her head hits the ground. I mention it because it was this, above everything else, that was the deal breaker for me as far as Jacob was concerned. I can see no good reason for him to do this. Edward isn't around to annoy, and even if he's listening in, which I doubt (I can't imagine him not coming back when Jake did that), there is still no good reason for this kind of behaviour. I can understand that he might have thought that kissing her might make her realise that she loved him, even though I don't agree with how he went about it, but I can only think of one reason for him doing this, and that is that he was showing off how clever and quick and strong he was. But the problem with that is that he does it by making Bella look weak. He makes himself look strong by degrading her. I found this behaviour absolutely disgraceful, and if I saw any guy doing that to a girl I would advise her to stay away from him. It was seriously disturbing to me.