Tornado wrote: As regards imminent death circumstances and everything else, we've been over it before. We will agree to disagree, then.
I respectfully agree.
Regarding Alice’s NM vision, I think you are right about the dual future appearing on the plane. However, I also think when Alice made her promise to Bella, the vampire-Bella vision was back on. In order for Alice to keep her promise, that meant that their relationship, hence contact, was also back on and potentially putting Bella back in the Cullen circle. Which meant that if Alice was incapable of administering the change at whatever time that would have been, then Carlisle could have been the backup. Especially, being that Bella was going to keep insisting to be changed more than ever now. Remember, Bella was bold enough to ask Carlisle in the beginning of NM for the change, though she already knew his standards on changing people. In addition, Bella was so happy with Alice’s promise, she said, “But at least I had something to hope for if we did”
. Meaning if she did survive Volterra, she knew she was going to be a vampire. That's why when Edward was laying out his plans for her she was aghast and dismayed that Edward was trying to take her dream from her, hence her request for a vote.
Regarding Aro: I kindly say, Aro offered to change Bella first then he saw Alice’s thoughts. His interest and his leniency came into play before taking Alice’s hand and reading her thoughts about her promise to Bella on the plane (which I believe turns the vampire-Bella vision back on).
Before I forget, I wanted to make one last point on the lifestyle of the red-eyed vampires or any yellow-eyed vampire that slips and takes a human life. One of your past points (I think) was the afterlife for red-eyed vampires. My thoughts on that is, I think they would be in the same category as the person committing murder due to their medical glitch, regardless of the number of casualties.
Okay, moving on. I have made 6 points to your post to me.
. Regarding Edward’s unpredictable suicidal tendencies: I agree with what you said.
. Regarding Carlisle’s statement, “It’s the only way that makes sense,” Carlisle insisted. “You’ve chosen not to live without her, and that doesn’t leave me a choice.”
I think that was Carlisle saying indirectly (paraphrasing here) “Son I’ve indulged you long enough, you’ve forced my hand and whether you agree or not, you're getting the vampire-female you were destined to have. She will be your help-mate comparable to you in every single way and we'll have no more of this nonsense of Bella remaining dangerously human while in your company or in this family!”.
Also, even if Alice was messing with Edward (which to some degree I think she was) she, IMO, gave him the ultimate test. She tempted him to think of leaving and he could not, it was too painful. Edward also says something like, thank heavens there are reasons for him to stick around. That doesn’t seem like he was forced to me. Further, like I said before, Edward and the family could not anticipate 1. Bella’s unconditional and irrevocable love for Edward and 2. that Bella's feelings would last. Humans change personalities all the time, hence our high divorce rate and who better than mind-reading-Edward knew that?
Also, I believe Carlisle is well aware of the vampire-mate-bond being active in Edward, which is the very reason he feels he has to change Bella, because unlike Marcus, there is no Chelsea to ease suicidal-Edward’s grief and effectively stopping him from endangering, not only himself, but the entire family. The lost would be too great for Carlisle or whoever happened to survive.
[Side Note] I see your edit regarding Esme. I thought everyone’s response at the MS table was reasonable. I hold the position, that everyone understood that the original vampire-Bella vision was (paraphrasing here) Edward's HEA coming to a theatre near you and happily sponsered by Bella's upcoming deathbed circumstance. IMO, Alice just provided a teaser trailer, of sorts, to what’s to come.
Second, Edward has not chosen to live with her, it is impossible not to live with her. That goes for every single vampire.
Carlisle knows better, but he also knows Edward, and he's telling him to take responsibility for the situation, which Edward is not doing. Edward has completely disrupted all of their lives, he is responsible for revealing the Cullen family and Bella to the Volturi, and he now wants the family to take it on the lam for the next several decades while he sticks Bella in one hidey hole after the other. That is how he plans to fix the problems he is responsible for, by creating more problems and disrupting all of their lives even further. Carlisle needs Edward to snap out and face reality, which is why I think he words his statement the way he does. When I look from Edward's view I think it is so unfair, but when I look from Carlisle's view I see someone who needs a wakeup call, fast.
So true, so true.
Regarding your P.S.
Regarding Carlisle possibly snubbing Edward when he ignores Edward to make the offer to Bella:
I think he is indirectly scolding and reprimanding Edward for his dangerous, reckless and inconsiderate suicidal behavior. Edward is the apple of Carlisle and Esme’s eyes, but what he did was a BIG NO-NO and Carlisle had had enough. If the Volterra scene would have went badly, Carlisle would have lost Bella, Edward, Alice and in turn over-protective-of-Alice-Jasper. And I wouldn’t put it pass the surviving family to avenge everyone too. Total decimation of the family. Edward’s suicidal behavior had become more dangerous to the Cullens than the Volturi themselves. Edward had, albeit unintentionally, crossed the line, to say the very least.
Regarding what you said about Rosalie:
I must admit I did think that, when I first read it. I just thought, “ouch, Rosalie”. But then, I thought about it a little more, and thought, that would be “the pot calling the kettle black” and then I had to re-think what her “NO” vote actually meant to me. Which led me to think, as I said before, she meant well. She would not discard humanity for no one, not even Emmett. Not even for the human-girl who saved her brother and irrationally wants to be a yellow-eyed vampire. None of this is worth discarding humanity for. I’m probably alone in this, but I think Rosalie is the only one talking sense at that table. Edward’s NO-vote talks sense too, but everything he says after that is crazy. Living more undercover than what they already are and like you said hiding Bella in every “hidey hole” for the rest of her human life? He couldn’t even keep Bella safe for one year! How did he ever think he could keep her safe for 50-60 more years? Like Jacob says, “it must be the crazy talking”.
Lastly, regarding when you say, “Isn’t Rosalie’s explanation for her NO vote a backhanded slap at Carlisle and a warning to him that if he has any integrity he should vote NO as well?”:
I think Rosalie’s NO vote is a backhanded slap and a warning to Bella not Carlisle. Maybe it would have been for Carlisle IF she herself had not consented to have Emmett changed. But, that’s not the case. The issues between Carlisle and Rosalie, regarding the bite, were put away after Emmett. She like Edward just sometimes, well - - most of the times, get tired of feeling disgusted in their own skins (or stones) and start getting the blues about their monstrous-thirst.