Rosalie Hale

[Lioness Rampant]

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so you finally agree that Jacob is biased? as well as bella.

Malaz, any thing from a 1st person perspective is going biased.

I feel like i am going around in circles. you guys are completely missing my point. the point that i am trying to discuss. looks like we've come to agreement that jacob is biased, correct?

I feel you are going around in circles, too- what IS this point of yours that we are so aptly missing?

well, his hate for rosalie precieves her actions in a undesirable and repugnant way sort of like how you see them.

Oh, Malaz. dear me. I think we have covered this well enough, don't you? ACTIONS ARE ACTIONS. I don't care HOW Jake sees or percieves her actions. Why do you? Why should anyone? I mean, honestly-how do you "percieve an action" differently? you can percieve the motive or the intention of an action differently. also, it is a possibilty that you can percieve the manner of an action differently... but thats not what you are saying, or have been saying, for that matter...

NOW, what i am trying to say is. What if we got a look in Bella's head during book 2. What would she have been thinking? Grateful, thankful, happy that Rosalie is helping her with this, am i right?

all we get is Jakes POV. we can speculate all we want, but FACTS are FACTS and ACTIONS are ACTIONS.
look at Eclipse- when Rose was telling Bella her story (Bella's POV, here) Bella still sees that Rose doesnt like her- Rose acknowledges this. Rose confirms this. but the deed is done, no matter how Bella tells the story...

Well, jacob views her actions and horrible and inexcusable, Bella views her actions as a grateful thing. WHO IS RIGHT? -- but that's beside the moment at the moment.

very much so.
and now you are switching from how a narrator "percieves" an action to how a narrator "recieves
an action...

now, you want to discuss her actions in a certain way without without considering what others think of her, and you're completely one-sided (if you'll excuse me .) because you're looking at it from Jacob's side, you're not considering everything.

well, as long as you are attacking my point of view, I'd like to ask- what side are YOU looking at it from, Malaz? I'd say that you are one-sided, as you can't acknowledge anything but Jake's bias vs Bella's bias. (You know I love you, Malaz! <3)

Her intentions is what you're judging. Why can't you except that she did a good thing?

what is there to accept? Rose is selfish and did what she did only out of selfishness. I don't think that the end of the story justifies Rose's vanity and selfishness...

She wasn't killing bella, bella was killing herself. She was sacraficing herself to save "her little nudger"...Rosalie...rose was helping her with something Bella wants, something bella asked from her. How are her actions in wanting to help bella inexcusable? Along the way, yes, Rosalie was abnoxious and disrespectful and she could have said things a little differently...

you've lost me... what sacrifice did Rose make, again? What did she loose by "wanting to help Bella"? and Malaz, I thought we established already that "Rose's priority was the baby, Rose's priority was the baby, etc, ect"... now Rose's priority is helping Bella? Make up your mind.

Yes, her actions are a fact. they were written and read. but what were exactly her "actions" that were inexcusable? please enlighten me.

YOU STATED IT YOURSELF, Malaz. a few quotes ago- we aren't judging her ACTIONS. we're judging her intentions. both of which were selfish- did you read the series?

and as for jacob, again. he misinterprets them.
he isn't misinterpreting them in the sense when rosalie gave him the FIDO bowl, he was like "oh she's being nice" but he's misinterpreting them in the sense that his love for bella and his extreme anxiety that she could die...

you might wnat to read what you wrote here. I don't get what you're saying. you're trying to tell me that Jacob is blind and deaf by is love for Bella? and because he loves Bella, he doesn't know what Rose is doing?
should I even bother trying to understand what you mean? please, enlighten me. how does Jake "misinterpret" Rosalie Hale's actions?

in HIS eyes rosalie was helping bella die. so of coarse he's going to find her a disgusting, physcotic blonde. AGAIN, if we're looking at if from bella perspective...

you are going in circles, Malaz! (ily!!!)

and i have one thing to touch up upon, but i think i've written too much. i guess i am partial to writting alot...

[/quote]
gotta love it! us- two of the wordiest, verbose, long-winded people on Earth- and we clash. the world makes no sense!!

I hope you enjoyed my disection!

[metro_girl0]

Your reply was indeed most intrigueing. (lolz, sorry, that popped into my head, and it sounded so funny so I had to say it.) Please ignore my retardedness.
Anyways, when you think about it, EVERYONE is biased by their own opinions. Some seem more forceful in saying theirs and others are quiet on it.
Me, personally, I usually state my opinions ALL the time, but this has gotten really interesting, so I am only going to say some of them.
Basically, anyone can be considered bias. It mostly goes on how well you know someone.
This thread is sooo interesting, seriously, to see everyone's opinions, I was gone for like a day and I come back and now there are like 3 more pages added to this thread.
But anyways, it all depends on your personality, and thoughts, anything can be considered abuse, it just goes with your personality. Whether your really gullible, really mean, or take things to seriously, it all depends.
Happy late Thanksgiving.

Allie

[Amethyst1]

i thought you disagreeing with me about it from before...weren't you and holdingoutforjacob attacking me for thinking it was "biased"???

you're honestly confusing me. I am not going around in circles. WE ARE going around in circles. i keep mentioning the same thing again and again...

well first. i spelled percieve wrong.
and yes, you acn percieve an action differently. and AGAIN, i'll mention the different perspectives. there's bella, and there's jacob's...

and what IS the fact? you can theorize of coarse, since we're reading it from jacob's pov. but her actions are actions, that's correct...AND there are always different perspectives to it. yeah...which are called "opinions". so, and i absolutely have no idea what we're particularlly applying this too. but jacob's opinions of rose are NOT concrete facts. like you/i/we said. b.i.a.s.e.d!

very much so.
and now you are switching from how a narrator "percieves" an action to how a narrator "recieves
an action...

i don't get what you mean....?

well, as long as you are attacking my point of view, I'd like to ask- what side are YOU looking at it from, Malaz? I'd say that you are one-sided, as you can't acknowledge anything but Jake's bias vs Bella's bias. (You know I love you, Malaz! <3)

i'd imagine you'd like to apply the term "one-sided" to me. but i am not one-sided and especially in this situation.
I am looking at it from ALL sides. The fact that i can aknowlege rose is rude, disrespectful and abnoxious and her main motive was the baby (and of coarse she wanted to help bella WHICH i do not want to discuss since it's a moot point)...

you're.judging.her.intentions....which she acted on to an extent....but HELPNG BELLA, when no one else was helping her with it. if you were in bella's shoes, wouldn't you want the same thing done for you?

no, i meant bella was sacrificing her self for her "little nudger" not rose.
no one said ANYTHING about bella being rose's priorty. although, i do believe she cared for her. but again, moot point.

no I didn't read the series actaully. i just happened upon this board and decided to discuss away....(love you <3333)
her actions...? her actions...
i suppose since her intentions were acted on that makes them [her actions] selfish, but to an extent though. her intentions...there's nothing to discuss about them. they were selfish. period.
but her ACTIONS, which are considered selfish by you, simply because there was a motive behind them...BUT come one, caring and defending and helping bella regardless of the intention. WASN'T THAT A GOOD THING? i hope this made sense!!!

well, i've never heard of a blind werewolf. but in jacob's case, it's debatable (and in all the other werewolfs as well, excluding adorable seth.)
but have YOU read jacob's book? didn't you notice what he said about rose? 'she's helping with the monsters spawn. wanting bella to die..."
AND AGAIN. different perspectives result in different opinions. i don't know why you can't get that, i keep mentioning again and again and you keep questioning it.

LOL, yeahh...
yeah, of coarse i love you. hopefully you won't take anything too personal (forgive me...?)

[metro_girl0]

were you replying to what I wrote? Because I am completely confused. Man, wooh, I am confused. I didn't attack you. I just stated my opinion.


Allie

[Amethyst1]

were you replying to what I wrote? Because I am completely confused. Man, wooh, I am confused. I didn't attack you. I just stated my opinion.


Allie

oh no no. it's my reply to "lioness rampant" sorry, i should have been more clearer. it's just that i already did my post and saved it and then came to edit it and forgot to put "to lioness rampant"

as for your post. I agree with it. except with one thing. "anything can be considered abuse", i think if someone takes a "shut up" as a verbal abuse. they're overstating things. but you're right. there are people out there that would think that. we were watching a video in health class about drugs and whatnot. and the drugee did something. it wasn't that extreme but the guy was like "you just assulted me. get out of my house" and it wasn't really an assult. so i just found that interesting...

[metro_girl0]

when i replied to this forum i hadnt realized i had put the abuse thing in this one, i had meant to put it in the edward and bella thng, and you right some people do take things wayyyy to seriously.
And thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate it.
Anyways, the debates that happen in these forums are so interesting to be a part of, aren't they?


Allie

[holdingoutforjacob]

malaz, you can't interpret an ACTION two ways. you can interpret a MOTIVE or an INTENTION or an ATTITUDE, but an action would be solid, factual, and not open to interpretation.

so, when jacob says "rosalie just wanted the baby" and edward confirms it, it might have been biased for jacob to think that, but by edward confirming it, it becomes fact.

when he says "rosalie said suchandsuch to edward, rosalie got angry when edward touched bella, rosalie said this" that's fact. that's what happened. when he says "because she was heartless, because she was a psycho, because this this and that" that's interpretation and bias.

i'm not entirely sure why the fact that jacob has an opinion on the baby makes his POV illegitimate. i'm not entirely sure what you're arguing here. from what i can see, this discussion started because you refused to acknowledge rosalie's nastiness as seen in jacob's book because his POV would be biased.

[Amethyst1]

when i replied to this forum i hadnt realized i had put the abuse thing in this one, i had meant to put it in the edward and bella thng, and you right some people do take things wayyyy to seriously.
And thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate it.
Anyways, the debates that happen in these forums are so interesting to be a part of, aren't they?


Allie

oh well. that's okay. don't worry about it.
yeah, it can get quite interesting. it's kind of fun.

holdingoutforjacob:
yes, you can interpret the action in two ways. even more. I am not implying that jacob has double vision or something and he can't see exactly what Rose is doing. he can see pretty fine. i am talking about his OPINIONS of her, they are "interpretations" of her actions. for instance, when he used the term "possesive", he implys it in such a repugnant way. you know. so it's his interpretation of Rosalie's protectiveness of bella.

and no one is arguing that fact...

no, this whole discussion started because i said jacob is biased. and you guys commented on that and the discussion took into several other directions.
and i have no idea where you got "you refused to acknowledge rosalie's nastiness as seen in jacob's book" -- haven't you noticed me saying that i aknowledge that she was rude to him? i litterly say it in every one of my posts in this thread. do you want me to quote all my previous posts?

[metro_girl0]

lolz, maybe you should, that way no one can say you didnt say that. I saw the posts you did say she was rude. I think Rosalie is misunderstood. Is that weird of me? What do ya'll think?

Allie

[holdingoutforjacob]

malaz, one thing i've noticed about you is you do this thing, where you say one thing at the beginning, and then we get into this huge discussion, and then you do a total 180 and say oh well yeah of course she was being rude and then the conversation gets so convoluted and confusing.

the way he applies it, his tone, yes, that IS bias, but the fact that she is possessive is not based on bias.