Jacob Black

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Pel
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by Pel » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:58 pm

Thoughts:

1. No body but Stephenie, her sister and a handful of people who may have seen Forever Dawn know exactly how developed or not Jacob's character was in that book.

2. Whatever Jacob did within the plot of that book and how he fell in love with Bella in that book remains a mystery.

3. Under what exact circumstances he imprinted on Nessie in Forever Dawn remains a mystery

4. Stephenie has said that there are some certain basic facts, basic chronologies that parallel book to book, but given all of New Moon, and how the story then developed from there there are obvious changes. Plus given that Forver Dawn was written in 2003 or so inevitably by the time Breaking Dawn arrived there would have been changes just on style alone.
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holdingoutforjacob
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by holdingoutforjacob » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:39 pm

....right.

but the point remains the same.

I believe SM said somewhere that Jacob was a surprise to her. She didn't know he would be so central to the story, that he and Bella would become so close. All I'm saying is, if she knew he'd imprint on Nessie at that point (which she did, correct?) then if that was gonna cause him to be as in love with Bella as he was, wouldn't she know that too?
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by Rob » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:55 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:....right.

but the point remains the same.

I believe SM said somewhere that Jacob was a surprise to her. She didn't know he would be so central to the story, that he and Bella would become so close. All I'm saying is, if she knew he'd imprint on Nessie at that point (which she did, correct?) then if that was gonna cause him to be as in love with Bella as he was, wouldn't she know that too?
No not necessarily...whether or not she knew Jake would imprint on nessie doesn't mean she knew anything other than that fact. If she didn't know he would be central to the story then she definitely didn't know he would fall in love with Bella because that is HUGE.
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by Amethyst1 » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:59 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote: malaz i'm still trying to grasp your point. are you saying that because bella was going to have nessie, jacob fell in love with her? that the only reason for jacob and bella's relationship was nessie??
no, that's not what I am saying. I am saying that Jacob was supposed to fall inlove with bella and that would eventually lead him to renesmee. I don't know if it was deliberate of SM or it just happened. I don't know. but that's what i am saying.
Imprinting on Renesmee in breaking dawn saved her - litteraly - if jacob had not imprinted on her, she would have died. There would have been no "new" truce/treaty with the Cullens. So, that fits with what i am saying because, in new moon, when Edward left - SM altered their "fate", she changed the way the story was supposed to go, and Jacob and Bella fell in love with each other...fastforward to breaking dawn, jacob goes to the cullens house and finds out if bella was really sick or was changed, he finds she's pregnant, he goes back to his pack and he becomes an alpha because he won't do what sam wants to do, he goes back to the cullens and he starts to feel a "pull" (eventually)

EDIT: i agree with Rob. i think the minute SM realized that Jacob and Bella were to fall inlove, she decided the rest of the story and Renesmee was going to be part of that.

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Pel
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by Pel » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:11 pm

I don't know if Jacob was anything other than a good friend of Bella in Forever Dawn, or if there was an unrequited romantic interest. I'm not sure that either way would matter.

I'm pretty sure though that Jacob in either book imprinting on Nessie had more to do with Nessie than Bella. In other words you're going to imprint on who you imprint no no matter any outside factors.
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by holdingoutforjacob » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:09 pm

hmm. well that could be, malaz. i just don't think that Nessie was the reason Jacob fell in love with Bella. I don't think imprinting had anything to do with that. I think he fell in love with her because, well, he was in love with her.
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by DesiringJB » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:37 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:hmm. well that could be, malaz. i just don't think that Nessie was the reason Jacob fell in love with Bella. I don't think imprinting had anything to do with that. I think he fell in love with her because, well, he was in love with her.
I agree. I think the reason Bella and Jacob could not walk away from each other was because of the pull of Nessie. However, I do not think Jacob loved Bella because of Nessie. There's a difference. I think Jacob loved Bella for Bella.
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by holdingoutforjacob » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:52 pm

Um, well. I think they couldn't walk away from each other simply because they loved each other UNTIL Bella was pregnant with Nessie. I really believe that Nessie didn't effect anything until she actually existed.

If you go back and look at it, it's actually Bella who does most of the coming back.
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by SenorGimp » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:46 am

I totally agree that Jacob loved Bella for Bella before there was ever even a CONSIDERATION of Nessie at all...
The fact that SM really thought Jacob deserved to have a happy ending (and who wouldn't? Jacob was a great guy who sacrificed pretty much everything he had so that Bella would be happy), I think, may be the cause for bringing Nessie into the picture and having Jake imprint on her, but then again, coincidences abound in life, and whose to say that it didn't merely fall out that way as she was writing?..
Oh, right, the people talking about Forever Dawn say that...
hmmm..
either way, I am very glad of the way things "ended" (please don't let it be so!!), and can not wait (though I have to anyway, regardless of my level of tolerance towards it) for SM to write more sequels to the series...
There's just WAY too much potential story left to end it there, what with the Jacob and Renesmee relationship, and whatever type of Progeny THEY may produce, not to mention (and I did earlier in another post) the fact that the Volturi (Aro at least) know that Charlie knows at least a bit about their supernatural world, and the threat that poses to him, the Kate and Garret relationship, the Nahuel factor and how that might interfere with the Jacob and Nessie relationship, since they're the only two unrelated opposite gendered "people" of their kind, and a whole slew of other things that would probably not be relevant to bring up in the Jacob thread...
anyway, thanks for listening, I would love some feedback, since I very rarely get any...
thank you for your time...
= )...
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Re: Jacob Black

Post by DesiringJB » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:55 am

In reply to holdingoutforjacob..

Well, just because Bella did most of the coming back, that doesn't mean it wasn't because of Nessie. I can't say for sure when Nessie's pull started on Jacob. Maybe you're right and it only took affect once Bella was pregnant. But the strength of imprinting is not fully known to anyone so its not crazy to think that it could have been working before Nessie existed. Jacob loved Bella for Bella, and Bella loved Jacob for Jacob (IMO). And I believe THAT had nothing to do with the Nessie. However, the fact that they kept coming back to each other...Maybe it was their love...Maybe it was Nessie. I guess I don't know which I believe it to be. And honestly, it doesn't matter to me.

With this whole issue, the only thing that matters to me was the love between Bella and Jacob. It was real. And it bugs me when people don't believe Bella and Jacob really loved each other...Like Bella and Jacob only thought they did because of the pull Nessie had on them or something..I blame SM for that. I felt like their love, which had been made such a big deal at the end of Eclipse, was belittled time and again in BD...But thats just my feelings..
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