Edward Cullen #3

[Jazz Girl]

Oh! SenorGimp, my apoligies, too. I don't hate Jacob at all. He infuriates me at times. Yes, I occasionally want to fling him off a cliff. But, he is essentially a good guy. I really question his motives. But, his heart is pure and his mind is (somewhat) sound, if you totally discount the delusion of coming between Edward and Bella. I totally agree with you about his role in New Moon. He is exactly what Bella needed at that time. And, yes, I also agree with you that Edward is a blind idiot for leaving the way he did. There was a period of time (maybe pages 83 to 520 or so of NM) that I couldn't forgive him. You see, I am vehemently opposed to others putting their emotional agendas off on others, particularly making decisions about what is best for that other person based upon your own flaws. As you can imagine, admiring Edward the way I do is a difficult thing, sometimes.
However, my issue with Jacob lies in what he wasn't able to do when the time came; close the door on Bella. Granted, Bella has a huge chunk of the blame as she really kept picking the lock. But, the bottom line was Bella had told him repeatedly that she chose Edward, period. There wasn't ever an argument, debate or any other form of conversation. While I like Jacob a lot and think that his relationship with Bella was healthy for both of them at the time, it is not what Edward's & Bella's is. I do not believe that Jacob truly loved Bella or vice versa. I know this will get the Team Jacob-ites all in a tizzy. But, for just a moment, consider it. I am talking about true love. Yes, they were great friends. Yes, Jacob was greatly infatuated with Bella. Yes, Bella found comfort in Jacob in a time of great need. But, in the end, neither would have been completely happy. Bella would always have known that she settled for what made life less painful rather that truly happy. And, Jacob would always have known he came in second. That isn't true love. If it had been true love, Jacob would have done exactly what Edward did do; give Bella the choice and respect her wishes. I do not doubt at all that, if when Edward gave Bella the choice, she had said, "You know what, you're right. I am safer and happier with Jacob. You are a jerk. You left me. I can't trust you....." ( ), he would have apologized for the pain he caused her, climbed in the Volvo and put Forks in the rear view.
That is the difference between the crush kind of first love that Jacob had for Bella, and the existance-altering true love between Edward & Bella. And, yes, I do blame Jacob a bit for subjecting Edward, Bella and the rest of us to his petty taunts, insults, and behaviors. I agree with the posters who have all pointed out that Jacob is young and hasn't learned to handle himself in a mature way yet. But, I don't buy that as an excuse. Luna-san makes a great point in that Edward has no more experience in love than Jacob. But, it is Jacob, not Edward, who gets pleasure out of hurting his rival with what he knows. Think about it. How much knowledge of Jacob's baser and hurtful thoughts does Edward have? He could regale Bella for days with the inappropriate, rude and downright mean things Jacob has been thinking. He doesn't. It is Jacob who, every chance he gets, intentionally tortures Edward with his thoughts, getting a kick out of it every time.

[Heart_in_Hand]

Oh! SenorGimp, my apoligies, too. I don't hate Jacob at all. He infuriates me at times. Yes, I occasionally want to fling him off a cliff. But, he is essentially a good guy. I really question his motives. But, his heart is pure and his mind is (somewhat) sound, if you totally discount the delusion of coming between Edward and Bella. I totally agree with you about his role in New Moon. He is exactly what Bella needed at that time. And, yes, I also agree with you that Edward is a blind idiot for leaving the way he did. There was a period of time (maybe pages 83 to 520 or so of NM) that I couldn't forgive him. You see, I am vehemently opposed to others putting their emotional agendas off on others, particularly making decisions about what is best for that other person based upon your own flaws. As you can imagine, admiring Edward the way I do is a difficult thing, sometimes.
However, my issue with Jacob lies in what he wasn't able to do when the time came; close the door on Bella. Granted, Bella has a huge chunk of the blame as she really kept picking the lock. But, the bottom line was Bella had told him repeatedly that she chose Edward, period. There wasn't ever an argument, debate or any other form of conversation. While I like Jacob a lot and think that his relationship with Bella was healthy for both of them at the time, it is not what Edward's & Bella's is. I do not believe that Jacob truly loved Bella or vice versa. I know this will get the Team Jacob-ites all in a tizzy. But, for just a moment, consider it. I am talking about true love. Yes, they were great friends. Yes, Jacob was greatly infatuated with Bella. Yes, Bella found comfort in Jacob in a time of great need. But, in the end, neither would have been completely happy. Bella would always have known that she settled for what made life less painful rather that truly happy. And, Jacob would always have known he came in second. That isn't true love. If it had been true love, Jacob would have done exactly what Edward did do; give Bella the choice and respect her wishes. I do not doubt at all that, if when Edward gave Bella the choice, she had said, "You know what, you're right. I am safer and happier with Jacob. You are a jerk. You left me. I can't trust you....." ( ), he would have apologized for the pain he caused her, climbed in the Volvo and put Forks in the rear view.
That is the difference between the crush kind of first love that Jacob had for Bella, and the existance-altering true love between Edward & Bella. And, yes, I do blame Jacob a bit for subjecting Edward, Bella and the rest of us to his petty taunts, insults, and behaviors. I agree with the posters who have all pointed out that Jacob is young and hasn't learned to handle himself in a mature way yet. But, I don't buy that as an excuse. Luna-san makes a great point in that Edward has no more experience in love than Jacob. But, it is Jacob, not Edward, who gets pleasure out of hurting his rival with what he knows. Think about it. How much knowledge of Jacob's baser and hurtful thoughts does Edward have? He could regale Bella for days with the inappropriate, rude and downright mean things Jacob has been thinking. He doesn't. It is Jacob who, every chance he gets, intentionally tortures Edward with his thoughts, getting a kick out of it every time.

I couldn't have said it better myself! I agree with everything you said, including the apology to SenorGimp. I don't hate Jacob, and Edward is not perfect. I don't think I ever said either of those things, but still, if it came off that way, I'm sorry.

[SarahGoddard]

As for Edward thinking he is a monster and that making it hard for him to be with Bella, yeah, I can see that. So, I know why Edward didn't want to turn Bella into a vampire too, but I have always felt it was stupid of him. This is when that protectiveness and carefulness of his really gets annoying for me. Bella wants it, he wants it, and it would solve every single physical problem in their relationship. And some of Edwards emotional issues too, in regards to him having to "save" her and be a monster at the same time. That's why I love Breaking Dawn. They finally both get what they want, and more than they ever expected to have!

I think the line that sums it all up as to Edwards protectivness as to Bella becoming a vampire is at the beginning of New Moon when Carlise's fixing her up. "If you belived as he did. Could you take away his soul?" And Bella then answers her own furious debates "But would I risk Edwards soul? That wasnt a fair exchange" Says it all right there if you ask me

For me I think the most beautiful thing Edward has ever done for her is be so understanding and accepting of her and JAcob (eventually) - the night he holds her as she cries over him. My god! How self-less and amazing is that. It proves that all he wants is for her to be safe and happy.

Of course he then does go overboard - spoling the honeymoon and what not especially as its quite obvious shes not in pain (she doesnt even notice she HAS bruises shes so euphoric!)

For me the biggest thing that bugs me with Edward is that hes ALWAYS right! That would drive me mad - I think I could learn to live with it thouhg

[Heart_in_Hand]

For me the biggest thing that bugs me with Edward is that hes ALWAYS right! That would drive me mad - I think I could learn to live with it though

That is the only thing I think I really don't like about Edward. I could never live with a man who thought so little of me to assume that nothing I said could be right unless it agreed with his point of view.

Not that Edward is exactly like that, but he really thinks he knows everything, and thus, knows better than Bella. Maybe in some cases he does, but Bella isn't the typical 17 year old human girl. Edward should have realized a lot sooner that the rules he has applied to the world up until he met Bella do not apply anymore. She changed everything. And now, he knows less that he thinks... which means (guess what Edward?) he can be wrong! So, yeah, that really annoyed me.

[leahroselover]

For me the biggest thing that bugs me with Edward is that hes ALWAYS right! That would drive me mad - I think I could learn to live with it though

I couldn't it reminds me of that song by Shania Twain:

I've known a few guys who thought they were pretty smart
But you've got being right down to an art
You think you're a genius-you drive me up the wall
You're a regular original, a know-it-all
Oh-oo-oh, you think you're special
Oh-oo-oh, you think you're something else

Okay, so you're a rocket scientist
That don't impress me much

[SarahGoddard]

For me the biggest thing that bugs me with Edward is that hes ALWAYS right! That would drive me mad - I think I could learn to live with it though

I couldn't it reminds me of that song by Shania Twain:

I've known a few guys who thought they were pretty smart
But you've got being right down to an art
You think you're a genius-you drive me up the wall
You're a regular original, a know-it-all
Oh-oo-oh, you think you're special
Oh-oo-oh, you think you're something else

Okay, so you're a rocket scientist
That don't impress me much

LOVE it! The songs called "dont impress me much" and that sums it up doesnt it?! hehe!
On the note of songs (and aplogies if we've had this before but humour the newbie) remind you of Edward?(specifically him rather than him and Bella) "Hunter" by 30 seconds to Mars I think is excellent - go find it on youtube if you havnt heard it!

[leahroselover]

LOVE it! The songs called "dont impress me much" and that sums it up doesnt it?! hehe!
On the note of songs (and aplogies if we've had this before but humour the newbie) remind you of Edward?(specifically him rather than him and Bella) "Hunter" by 30 seconds to Mars I think is excellent - go find it on youtube if you havnt heard it!

I know the name of the song. lol. I also love the song but I never though of Edward, maybe James.

Although I hate to say it, I Can't Stay Away by The Veronicas sums up Edward/Bella (Edward's pov)

[roseaurora]

That is the only thing I think I really don't like about Edward. I could never live with a man who thought so little of me to assume that nothing I said could be right unless it agreed with his point of view.

Hahaha! You should ask my husband about living with someone like that! It isn't possible to count the number of spats we have had over this... me always thinking I'm right and that his POV is wrong. But seriously... it is usually the case.

[Heart_in_Hand]

That is the only thing I think I really don't like about Edward. I could never live with a man who thought so little of me to assume that nothing I said could be right unless it agreed with his point of view.

Hahaha! You should ask my husband about living with someone like that! It isn't possible to count the number of spats we have had over this... me always thinking I'm right and that his POV is wrong. But seriously... it is usually the case.

Well. That's different. Of course us women are always right!

Edward should figure that out, and fast!

[Visitor]

I dunno. Perhaps a lot of the problem with the Edward/Bella/Jacob arguements occur because the Cullens are so civilized--they act so human. I mean, if you're honest, its hard to think of Edward as being a bloodsuckin vampire, isn't it? I know that the word itself makes Bella cringe at times. Sure, he's got hard skin that sometimes sparkles and is indestructible. But that's more like a superpower. Not that by base nature he is supposed to be a be monster.
Perhaps we tend to humanize the Cullens too much--think of them in more human terms and thus try to make direct comparisons between Edward, BElla, and Jacob that can't really be made.

You know, there does tend to be, even in my own mind, a bit more levity given to some of the not-so-positive things that Edward has done during the course of the series. I can be honest and admit that, even as a person who adores the guy.

But I think it all comes down to an argument I made in the Jacob thread. Authors sometimes write characters for the specific purpose of stirring certain emotions in the reader. Jacob is a character universally meant to be loved, and yet somehow his character fell flat on some (not all) of the readers. Edward is also a character universally meant to be loved. But the difference is that the attempts by the author appear more successful to some (not all) where Edward is concerned. Both characters were written with the same sense of love from the author. Both characters have had SM’s heart at various stages of the story. And as she is the one guiding us through the story with her fantastic storytelling, it should only follow that we eventually feel the same way too.

I think that’s just one of the reasons I loved Twilight so much. I got caught up in the story-teller’s rapture in a way that was far different from other books. The story just seemed to work. The characters just seemed to work. I can’t speak for everyone, but thoughts about stalking, controlling and obsessive vs. healthy relationships did not factor in during my time alone with the book. Those thoughts didn’t even register until after the last page was turned and conversations and debates with others allowed me to see perspectives and opinions that were far different from my own. In the movie making business, they call that, “suspension of disbelief”. Meaning, if a story is really good, you can allow yourself to be swept away by it no matter how fanciful or absurd the plot. Well the same thing happens while reading a good book like Twilight. And I think the same thing happens when reading about Edward’s character.

SM sets the groundwork so well for this tortured, frozen in time, vampire teen, that it becomes easier and easier to overlook his faults. Or to at least understand them. By the end of Twilight, we feel like we know Edward. Like we understand to some degree what makes him tick. So when he does something insanely stupid like dismantling Bella’s car, kidnapping her, or leaving in NM . . . we can somehow manage to be unhappy with his actions without actually loathing his character. Of course, that is not true for everyone. But that’s because deep down we know that Edward loves Bella, the girl whose perspective we’re seeing all this from, more than his own life. And that may not necessarily be a pass for bad behavior but it most certainly helps.

Now, if at any time we ever had to wonder about the purity of his heart or love for Bella, then I think the comments on the board would be very different indeed. Folks would be less inclined to forgive a heartless sinner as opposed to a reforming one. I’m not saying that the formula is fool proof where Edward is concerned. Obviously not! Edward has more than his fair share of detractors. But the formula works well enough for most. Maybe that’s why there is so much leniency given where Edward is concerned.