Bella Swan Cullen #2

[holdingoutforjacob]

I don't see insecurity as being weak, I see dealing with it as strength. Everyone is insecure, the strong and the weak. The only ones who are exempt are the arrogant and foolish.

However, I do feel that Bella is weak. My reasoning, however, does not stem necessarily from her insecurities, but her treatment of people and various other things.

Oh, and by the way. Jazz Girl and Akire, I think you're absolutely right. She was definitely insecure in Twilight. But in New Moon, she had weakness added on to that. She was quite strong in Twilight in that, while she was nervous, insecure, and sometimes felt awkward, she worked through it to get stuff done that needed done. THAT is what strength is.

[eclipserox]

I don't know that I see her as weak. But, I agree with Holding out for Jacob in the sense that she was stronger in Twilight. In Twilight, she stood up for herself when Edward was ignoring her, taking Bella away from Forks to protect her right after they encountered James. She stood her ground and convinced him that her plan was better. She refused to give in. Then, in Phoenix, she planned to go to the ballet studio and sacrifice herself in order to save her mother even though she knew the Cullens would not want that. She showed that she was strong, somewhat independent, selfless enough to give her own life to protect someone she loved, and willing to stand up for herself.

After Twilight, I feel like she changed a lot. She rarely stood up for herself with Edward. Instead, she usually gave in to whatever he wanted for her (i.e. when Edward disabled her engine, she did not go see Jacob that evening and forgave Edward pretty quickly). Yeah, she later did go see Jacob, but she didn't really assert herself and show Edward that he had to listen to her. I imagine the Bella from Twilight fighting a little harder to get her way, not giving in so easily. She usually fell into line and did whatever the Cullens wanted. Not that the Cullens wanted bad things for her, but she definitely seemed less independent in a sense. I can't imagine her enacting a plan to escape the Cullens and do what she thought was best, as she did in Twilight, after the 1st book. She seemed to consider doing so in Eclipse, but gave up pretty quickly. And, she seemed to get more selfish in her treatment of others, including Edward and Jacob. So, I don't know that I would describe her as weak. She's not weak--she dealt with more than most teenagers do. But, she was stronger in Twilight.

[SenorGimp]

Okay, I haven't posted on any of the character threads very much since being reprimanded (for lack of a better word) for my "character-bashing parody", or whatever, of Edward and Jacob, and I don't really know what the current topic is, having only read the most recent post, but I gather that it has to do with Bella's strength of character, and since I used to pretty much own this thread, I'm going to put my two cents in...
As far as Bella's being weak, well I think we can all agree that she has shown with sufficiency on a number of occasions that she is far from weak. I would instead place a qualifier on that description to say that, when it comes to anything that any of the Cullens (with the possible exception of Rosalie), Primarily Edward, Alice, And Carlisle, want her to do, she is too weak to deviate from their directives, as she has gone through the horrible experience of having them removed from her life, and based on the emptiness of her existence at said point in time, she feels that any contrary thing she may say to any of them, regardless of the merits of her argument, might scare them away again, because she has perhaps a bit of a low sense of self-esteem, and thinks that mindless agreement to what her adoptive family thinks is the only way they will suffer to keep her around.
In this, Bella is weak. If she could just take a step back for half of a second, and see how absolutely Edward loves her, and would do anything for her, she might be able to play that to her advantage, rather than being a slave to that very same love....
I probably missed the mark by a lot, as far as what the subject actually was, but I wasn't about to go and read like 30 pages of back posts, so I just had to make do, and will hopefully be able to stay caught up hereafter.
Thank you for your time
~SenorGimp~

[Lunna-san]

I think Bella is a bit of both. She can be very strong when it's a dramatic situation - going after James, keeping Renesmee and going to rescue Edward in Volterra. But romantically.... Bella is a disaster. It's not because she's weak.

In Edward's case, it's a reflection on the state of her relationship. In Eclipse, they are kind of trying to put things together. Their situation is quite delicate, in many ways. She's really insecure and terrified of losing Edward again. So she tries the best she can in order to not start a discussion with Edward. On not opposing Edward. Twilight's Bella hasn't have suffered this kind of pain. But Eclipse's Bella was quite aware of that.

And she doesn't want to lose her bestfriend either. So the doesn't stop Jacob of crossing the line. And as consequence, their relationship got off balance.

She really did a mess of things. But, in my head, the idea of losing them it's really scary. She really loves Edward, Jacob and the Cullens. They are her first close friends, her boyfriend. It's difficult to lose a person you love. In NM, she lost her whole family.

So, in Eclipse, we see Bella trying to keep the people she loves and in BD, the second part, she finally reaches her goal. She faced a lot and in the end, she got the life she wanted to live. She survived. And this makes her not a 100% strong person, but definetely someone far stronger than the girl who wanted to disappear in the walls of Forks High on the first day of school.

[SenorGimp]

Yes, I'd say romantically weak would be a good way to describe Bella...

[holdingoutforjacob]

Yes, I'd say romantically weak would be a good way to describe Bella...

YOU!!!!! YOU'RE BACK!!!!
Welcome Home!!!!!

Hmm, that's interesting about Bella. I have to disagree though. Because I don't think the end result of her life is something she worked for, it's something that happened to her.

I think Bella is quite brave. I don't think they are the same thing.

[SenorGimp]

Note to self: in order to regain notoriety and acclaim after losing momentum on your favorite threads, merely remove yourself from them for a few weeks, and then come back in as though you'd never left...
Yes, she is definitely quite brave, but where her interaction and relationship with Edward was concerned, she pretty much deferred to him on every single thing he said, with the exception of her eventually going to see Jacob regardless of the fact that Edward didn't want her to, and this, in my opinion, is weak. Now, since she had to endure the uninspiring catatoniesque (made up word, bear with me) state of being that she was in after Edward left, it is not something that I can really blame her for, I was in similar states after my girl called it quits with me, last time, but that still should not give Edward room to stomp all over her desires, especially where they relate to the one person who preserved Bella's emotional sanctity as best he could for when Edward finally did return, or was brought back, against his worser judgment and stupidity...
Um, yeah, hey everybody!

[eclipserox]

Okay, I haven't posted on any of the character threads very much since being reprimanded (for lack of a better word) for my "character-bashing parody", or whatever, of Edward and Jacob, and I don't really know what the current topic is, having only read the most recent post, but I gather that it has to do with Bella's strength of character, and since I used to pretty much own this thread, I'm going to put my two cents in...
As far as Bella's being weak, well I think we can all agree that she has shown with sufficiency on a number of occasions that she is far from weak. I would instead place a qualifier on that description to say that, when it comes to anything that any of the Cullens (with the possible exception of Rosalie), Primarily Edward, Alice, And Carlisle, want her to do, she is too weak to deviate from their directives, as she has gone through the horrible experience of having them removed from her life, and based on the emptiness of her existence at said point in time, she feels that any contrary thing she may say to any of them, regardless of the merits of her argument, might scare them away again, because she has perhaps a bit of a low sense of self-esteem, and thinks that mindless agreement to what her adoptive family thinks is the only way they will suffer to keep her around.
In this, Bella is weak. If she could just take a step back for half of a second, and see how absolutely Edward loves her, and would do anything for her, she might be able to play that to her advantage, rather than being a slave to that very same love....
I probably missed the mark by a lot, as far as what the subject actually was, but I wasn't about to go and read like 30 pages of back posts, so I just had to make do, and will hopefully be able to stay caught up hereafter.
Thank you for your time
~SenorGimp~

I thought your character bashing parody was hilarious! Welcome back

[mikkib]

Does anyone think that Renee took Bella living with her father really well? She sent him a maybe boring but very mature and responsible teenager. Within a few months, the girl almost got killed, then went catatonic, left for days without any word, and got married by 18.

[eclipserox]

Does anyone think that Renee took Bella living with her father really well? She sent him a maybe boring but very mature and responsible teenager. Within a few months, the girl almost got killed, then went catatonic, left for days without any word, and got married by 18.

This is one of the reasons I don't think Bella's parents are great parents. They're not horrible by any means. I think they both love Bella and they're certainly not bad, abusive people. But, they are somewhat self-involved (I'm not sure if this is the right word). It's not that they don't care about Bella, but they seem to put their own wants and needs first. For example, Renee was willing to stay in Phoenix with Bella even though she wanted to travel with Phil. She had to know Bella would prefer not to move to Forks. We know Bella liked sunny Phoenix and hated the cold. And, what teenager really wants to move in the middle of high school? Still, instead of deciding to put Bella first and stay in Phoenix for another year, she let Bella move to Forks when Bella offered to do so. Not horrible, but certainly not what a lot of parents I know would do in the same situation.

Now, to be fair, Renee was really worried when Bella almost got hit in the parking lot. I think Charlie was going to send Bella to be with Renee when she was catatonic, and that's why Bella started trying to act more normal. I do think it's weird that Renee did not fly out to Forks to check on Bella or anything. For that matter, I think it's weird that Renee never visited Bella in Forks at all and Bella only visited once with tickets the Cullens paid for. My mom would not have been OK with seeing me only once a year when I was in high school, and she would have tried to spend holidays with me. As far as Bella getting married young, Renee had done this herself and said that Bella was much more mature than she was at that age, so I don't think her reaction was that weird.

I think one of the reasons it was easy, or at least not that difficult, for Bella to become a vampire is because her relationship with her mother wasn't that great. Again, by not that great I don't mean bad. But, they weren't super close. Her mother hadn't been a big part of her life for awhile. So, Bella was OK with not being able to see Renee again after her transformation. If Bella had been really close with her family, I think it may have been a harder decision and taken her longer to make.