Jacob Black

[SenorGimp]

~gentlemanly bow~
YOU'RE WELCOME!

[eclipserox]

To put it simply, Imprinting is an aspect of the Pack that is meant to ensure the continuation of the Shape-shifters' lineage, and as such, if Renesmee were to ever even have the possibility of entertaining the notion of being with anyone OTHER than Jacob, I don't think he would have imprinted on her. That's just not the way imprinting works, it's like neither one of them has a choice, because they care for each other in such a transcendent way that nothing else will ever even come close to holding a glimmer of the possibilities and potential that the nature of the Imprinted/Imprintee relationship does...
I'm thinking it's pretty much set in stone, at this point...
But that's just my interpretation of it, I'd be happy to have some feedback on it...
Thank you for your time
~SenorGimp~

Interesting perspective and you could definitely be right. I didn't feel like imprinting was very well or thoroughly explained. Maybe I'm the only one who felt that way, or I'm crazy and have forgotten key details. But, I remember reading it and at first it was said that imprinting was rare or uncommon or something. Then, Jacob was commenting on how all of the other wolves were imprinting and he didn't like it. This alone shows that the wolves themselves may not have fully understood imprinting and its history. It seemed like the 1st few wolves that imprinted did so on someone near their age who they could be with and did become romantically involved with (i.e. Sam and Emily). It seemed to me like the wolf did not have a choice. Sam didn't really have a choice. He didn't plan to leave Leah or think about it and decide Emily was better for her, but he imprinted and it was all over. I don't remember any indication that Emily did not have a choice, though. I always just assumed she fell for Sam. Then, we had a couple where they were in the same class and hadn't really talked but the girl had always secretly liked the wolf (I think, don't remember the names). Then, all of a sudden we have Quil imprinting on Claire, a little girl, which was new and different. It bothered Bella and Jacob explained that Quil would be the best big brother to her while she was little, then a great friend when she was a little older, and then eventually they would be together. I think Bella asked what would happen if the imprintee did not want to be with the wolf once, and Jacob's answer was something along the lines of "Why wouldn't she?" But, I don't remember imprinting ever being sufficiently explained to the point that we know whether the imprintee has a choice or not, what the wolf would do if the imprintee chose not to be with him, etc. I thought some of the details were grey enough that we can discuss it and have different theories.

Just to play "devil's advocate" and argue that Nessie could possibly choose someone else (I don't think she would), imprinting is to ensure continuation of the lineage. Do we know exactly what that means? Does the wolf imprint on anyone that is a good match and capable of having children, someone who has good genes and will have really strong children,, etc...? Why imprint on young girls who won't be able to have children right away then, why not imprint only on girls who are old enough to have children right away or very soon? Let's say minimal requirements are that the imprintee can have children. Renesmee can have children. (I think she is also a great match for Jacob, possibly his soul mate, but we don't know that this is a requirement for imprinting). What part of her being able to help Jacob continue the lineage means that she has no choice about being with him? If she did choose someone else instead of Jacob, it wouldn't change the fact that she is capable of having children and potentially could have helped Jacob continue the lineage.

For the record, I do think Renesmee COULD choose someone else if she wanted to. I don't think she will want to. I think she and Jacob probably are soul mates and he will be a natural choice for her. I think Jacob will be a great boyfriend and take care of her. But you never know. Right now she's a sweet little girl. She could grow up and decide it's too weird that Jacob has kissed her mother and had feelings for her mother. She could grow up and be a little rebellious, want to break away from the safe family friend and experiment a little. She could feel like an outsider since she is one of very few hybrids, and decide Nahuel is the only one who can understand her. She could decide to turn her back on the supernatural and date a human.

[akire]

Am I remembering it correctly that Sam & Billy had different theories about what imprinting was supposed to do? For some reason I have it in my head that one thought it was for the bloodline and one thought it was to make the wolf stronger. Am I totally making that up? (Sorry... my sister has my books, way across the country otherwise I would look it up and prove myself wrong/right).

If so... to me, the fact that there are 2 theories by characters in the book means SM is leaving the door open for a bit of our interpretation -- or to go down another road in future stories/books.

Or I'm remembering incorrectly in which case... um, nevermind!

[holdingoutforjacob]

I agree with you on a few points eclipserox. Especially that imprinting was not very well explained in the books. I feel like SM herself didn't really have a very deep idea of what it was, and just threw a bunch of cool sounding stuff in there. But I also don't think she counted on having such sharp, inquisitive fans, and so we're totally overthinking it here.

If an imprintee could turn away from an imprinter, I think we'd know. I think Emily would have turned away from Sam. But, of course, I really have nothing to back it up, except I do remember reading somewhere that she did try....

Also, I think you imprint because you already ARE everything your imprintee needs and will need. I don't think you change because you imprint, I think that you imprint because you are their soul mate, and that happens to be the person who needs exactly what you give.

[ForJazz926]

I always got the impression that when the guys imprinted, they just began to spoil their girls rotten, pretty much. Give them whatever they want. Like the way Nessie bites Jacob all the time. I mean normally, if your kid bites someone, don't you try to change that behavior? Especially considering she's part vampire and very strong - they would have wanted to discourage that, in reality. (But seriously, let's not get too caught up in "reality" when talking about vampire hybrids). But Jacob (and everyone else, really) just let Nessie do what she wanted, and bite him whenever. Quil let Claire wack him on the head with rocks and he just sat there loving it, because it was what was making HER happy. Based on those types of exchanges in the books, I can't see Jacob saying, "well Nessie - I see that you want to go and boink that other dude...but I believe I am what's best for you, so I am going to have to bite his arms off. Sorry." It would be the same selfish thing he did to Bella, which he recognized and apologized for later. He had that revelation once he imprinted - he will not act like that again.

In the books, it was explained that should those girls WANT someone else that day, it would not be an issue. But they also said that so far, that has not happened - because who wouldn't want someone who was loving and devoted and had become the perfect one for them? That's how it was explained - rather vague, but I got the picture.

[Jazz Girl]

Based on those types of exchanges in the books, I can't see Jacob saying, "well Nessie - I see that you want to go and boink that other dude...but I believe I am what's best for you, so I am going to have to bite his arms off. Sorry."

Okay. For the sake of my aching stomach and tearing eyes, I have to start here. This might well be the funniest quote I have ever read!!!! Haoly Crap on a Cracker!!!!!! Thank you for making at very least my month with that!!!!!!

Am I remembering it correctly that Sam & Billy had different theories about what imprinting was supposed to do? For some reason I have it in my head that one thought it was for the bloodline and one thought it was to make the wolf stronger. Am I totally making that up? (Sorry... my sister has my books, way across the country otherwise I would look it up and prove myself wrong/right).

If so... to me, the fact that there are 2 theories by characters in the book means SM is leaving the door open for a bit of our interpretation -- or to go down another road in future stories/books.

Or I'm remembering incorrectly in which case... um, nevermind!

Akire, In my opinion, you are remembering both right and wrong. I always looked at them as parts of the same theory. Making a stronger wolf would be a part of continuing the bloodline, ensuring its' survival. I think the difference comes in with whom the imprinting occurs. If it is just to make sure the line continues, than any "carrier" of the gene will do, anyone who is genetically compatible for the wolf gene to be dominant. But, if it is to make the strongest wolf possible, than it would be with the person who give the best odds of this.

It is the whole crux of Leah's argument and understanding about Rose. In either case, you would think that Leah would be the ideal candidate for Sam, the Alpha and strongest, to imprint on. Combine their genes and you would get an uber-wolf. Even if it wasn't Sam, but maybe she was imprinted with one of the other packmates, it would seem that that would make a lot of sense as far as continuing the line and making the strongest wolf. As Carlisle might say, I have a theory about that that I will throw out, just for fun.

I think Sam or any of the other wolves didn't imprint on Leah because it was too much wolf. Kind of like I am glad Brad Pitt and Jen Anniston didn't have kids because the genes combining were guaranteed to even out the cosmos and recess back towards the average side of the scale. The two sets of genes would just kind of fight for dominance and actually end up weakening the resultant child. So, Leah isn't the soulmate of any of the wolves, but there is probably some poor unsuspecting Quilleute or Maka walking around LaPush who won't know what hit him. I like to think that Leah eventually gets her happy ending, too.

[SenorGimp]

ForJazz926: Excellent use of the word "boink", I haven't heard that in Ages!
you cracked me up! hahaha
As for the difference in theory between carrying on the bloodline, and making the strongest wolf, I'd like to throw out a different idea of the weight that imprinting has...
Ok, in the SCIENCE OF TWILIGHT thread, we've been discussing (well, they have, I've merely been observing their discussion) how Vampires are explained in a scientific manner, regardless of how far-fetched that science may be, and the Pack is considered to be of a more magical nature, right?
(here I go again with my gratuitous use of the word "right" )
Well, based upon this, I feel that the nature of imprinting (or the unnature, as it were) implies the best possible match for said wolf, basically eliminating the potential human fallacies that cause god-knows how many people to pass right by their soul-mate without even offering them a cursory glance.
Now in order to understand this, we really have to have a solid definition of the word soul-mate
In my opinion, a soul-mate is someone who, quite literally, is a perfect symmetrical match for your soul. Seems pretty basic right?
(again with the word "right"! what is wrong with me?)
Well the soul is a very complex and obscure concept, which I believe incorporates a number of factors:
1) A soul mate should, obviously, be someone who is a perfect match for you, and will provide you with a happy and satisfying life.
2) A soul mate should also be someone who offers a good chance of carrying on the bloodline (it would be too weird to say "soul line") thus ensuring that a little piece of your soul will continue on in the most undiluted manner possible.
3) The soul is transcendent, being capable of noticing things which our feeble human brains have a hard time grasping when left to their own devices, thus when you meet someone and just feel this powerful connection to them, with no logical backing to said feeling, that is certainly a work of the soul and not the "feeble human brain".

So, assuming that what I've said is true, it follows that Imprinting is a guaranteed elaboration our expansion of the basic human "chemistry" of "love at first sight", eliminating the potential oversight which humans are susceptible to which could cause this most perfect of matches to slip away....

So this means that Imprinting has to be infallible, as it is a magical extension of a scientific device (chemistry), and as such, if the imprintee is not going to choose the imprinted, then the imprinting would not occur...
Hmmm, that was pretty off-the-wall, I know, and perhaps not entirely comprehensive, but, um, deal with it

Thank you for your time
~SenorGimp~

[Jazz Girl]

SenorGimp, I am in awe. That is quite the impressive piece of mythological science faction. If you had wondered before why we missed you, that, right there is why. A+++, young man.

[spicey16]

it makes the most sence to me for imprinting to happen to ensure that the blood line continues however Billy never turned into a wolf and therefore never imprinted yet we still got jacob. so that throws a screw into things.
I also am not sure that Nessie can have babies. unless she has them before she stops growing which is at what 7? lol then it doesnt make sense for her to beable to have babies. i dont have time to elaborate but that gives you something to think about

[ringswraith]

it makes the most sence to me for imprinting to happen to ensure that the blood line continues however Billy never turned into a wolf and therefore never imprinted yet we still got jacob. so that throws a screw into things.

There were no vampires around during Billy Black's time; hence, no need for werewolves. He still had it in him, though- otherwise, why would Jacob inherit it?

I also am not sure that Nessie can have babies. unless she has them before she stops growing which is at what 7? lol then it doesnt make sense for her to beable to have babies. i dont have time to elaborate but that gives you something to think about

I'm guessing you think that once she stops "growing" that she will be frozen that way, like the vampires are.

I don't think this is true. Nahuel is physically mature, and has been for a while, but his heart still beats, and blood still flows in his veins. I think this is a sign that their bodies are still capable of change, and Renesmee should be able to conceive and bear child.