Edward Cullen #5

[diane771]

Ms Kachiti
Instead of throwing remarks about me reading the books maybe you should go back and read what was said before you started to post here. I find your question really insulting and uncalled for just because I am backing my statements and you can't you have to throw that out. Lets stick to the issues and instead of asking me if I read the books come back with your idea's with facts from the books. I can so OBVIOUSLY I HAVE READ THE BOOKS AND OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE NOTHING TO BACK YOUR OPINIONS BUT WITH INSULTS.

ARE YOU REALLY THAT IGNORANT OR ARE DOES THE FACT THAT SOMEONE WHO HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION OVER YOURS AND BACKS THEIR OPINIONS WITH FACTS FROM THE BOOKS GETS TO YOU ? stupid of a question is that . Please don't turn your lame opinion aroond by accusing me of something so stupid as have I read the books. Hello anyone in there that can carry on a conversation with out being nasty or is that the way you are?

diane771,

First of all, you seriously need to a chill. Two, I asked you a question based on comments from your previous posts. Nowhere in any of my post did I question your intelligence.

Asking someone on a Forum about a certain books and movies, yes that is really ignorant of you to ask that. Why would I be here if I did not read the books. What type of question is that? A stupid one to me. and I do take offense to that and the way you said it and that you didn't read what was said pages ago. How I came to that, I could go on but why should I when you are like that to me?

[diane771]

I could be wrong, and I don't really want to be involved in an argument or anything, but didn't Edward say something to Bella in New Moon on the way home from Volterra to the effect of

"Before you my life was like a moonless night" or something?? Something that definitely implied that he was, if not discontented at least missing something before she came into his life.

HOFJ,

Your correct about the quote its at the end of New Moon but what I'm getting from diane771 is that Edward hated and was not HAPPY with his life. Its like she is basing her theory on Edward's character from the movie and not the one from the book.
Something was missing from his life but he didn't know it until met Bella.

I do not base my belief that Edward was not CONTENTED IN HIS LIFE AGAIN KACHITI YOU DIDN'T GO BACK FAR ENOUGH TO SEE WHAT WAS SAID. EDWARD WAS NOT CONTENT. I WAS COMMENTING ON PEOPLE WHO SAID THAT EDWARD HATED HIMSELF AFTER HE MET BELLA. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MOVIE. SO PLEASE BEFORE YOU COMMENT OR SAY SOMEONE IS WRONG GET THE FULL PICTURE. I SAID EDWARD DID NOT HATE HIMSELF WHEN HE MET BELLA. PLEASE LOOK IT UP.

[ringswraith]

Rings, you could do to be a tad more respectful, IMO. I agree with you, but you're not the ultimate authority - I know you don't think you are, but that's how it's coming off, to me. I've made that mistake many times myself.

Would you mind pointing out what exactly I said that made you post this? Because I do want to address it.

diane771: This: (MS SPOILER ALERT)

With every fiber of my being, I ached to be a normal man, so that I could hold her in my arms without risking her life. So that I could be free to spin my own fantasies, fantasies that didn't end in with her blood on my hands, her blood glowing in my eyes.

And this: (MS SPOILER ALERT)

The love I felt for Bella had come purely, but now the waters were muddied. I wanted very much to be able to touch her. Did she feel the same way?

That didn't matter, I tried to convince myself.

I stared at my white hands, hating their hardness, their coldness, their inhuman strength...

That is how I can say that Edward hated himself when Bella came into his life.

[holdingoutforjacob]

Firstly, Rings, I was referencing your conversation with dunnerheartstwilight. It just came off to me like you were sort of speaking as if your opinion was the only right one, and since I've done it and regretted it, I thought I'd just let you know how it was coming off. Now that I rethink it, I probably should have done it in a PM. It wasn't meant to be an attack or anything, just a friendly reminder.

Now, for a not-so-friendly-reminder.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO CHILL OUT!!!!!!!!

Seriously. Take a trip bobsledding if you must. Make a snowman. But this is getting ridiculous. We are all intelligent people here and we all understand how to insult or degrade someone without actually using insults. Asking someone if they've actually read the books IS offensive and it DOES make them feel unintelligent. But there's no need to be so attacking. There is NO fact ANYWHERE that completely and totally closes this issue, so everyone is going to look at the "evidence" and interpret it their way and that's how it'll be.

Let's let this die here before a mod needs to become involved, shall we.

Rings - thank you for posting that there were MS spoilers in there!!! How thoughtful!

[ringswraith]

Firstly, Rings, I was referencing your conversation with dunnerheartstwilight. It just came off to me like you were sort of speaking as if your opinion was the only right one, and since I've done it and regretted it, I thought I'd just let you know how it was coming off. Now that I rethink it, I probably should have done it in a PM. It wasn't meant to be an attack or anything, just a friendly reminder.

I thought that was it. There's quite a bit of history that wasn't alluded to in that series of posts. Now, if you're referring to his views on Edward, my last post was me throwing up my hands- because he claims to be a genius, to have read the books, but cannot understand how anyone at school couldn't tell that Edward wasn't human.

I'm sorry, but there are just times that make me want to /headdesk. And that was one of them. And Logan, if you're reading this, my apoligies- but I still can't understand how you can say something like that.

Rings - thank you for posting that there were MS spoilers in there!!! How thoughtful!

I actually visited the MS Virgins thread to ask how best to approach something like this, because I didn't want to accidentally ruin MS for them, or take away from their decisions. I'm pretty sure I always mark the MS spoilers (can't remember going back), but I'm definitely marking them moving forward.

[diane771]

Rings, you could do to be a tad more respectful, IMO. I agree with you, but you're not the ultimate authority - I know you don't think you are, but that's how it's coming off, to me. I've made that mistake many times myself.

Would you mind pointing out what exactly I said that made you post this? Because I do want to address it.

diane771: This: (MS SPOILER ALERT)

With every fiber of my being, I ached to be a normal man, so that I could hold her in my arms without risking her life. So that I could be free to spin my own fantasies, fantasies that didn't end in with her blood on my hands, her blood glowing in my eyes.

And this: (MS SPOILER ALERT)

The love I felt for Bella had come purely, but now the waters were muddied. I wanted very much to be able to touch her. Did she feel the same way?

That didn't matter, I tried to convince myself.

I stared at my white hands, hating their hardness, their coldness, their inhuman strength...

That is how I can say that Edward hated himself when Bella came into his life.

But Ringswrath
wasn't that said when he was in her bedroom? What I quoted was more when he came to terms with his feelings for Bella, and he knew that Bella loved him. I don't think by then he hated himself . The Cullen's and Edward would do anything to be human again, but I do believe that Edward loved Bella by then he just wanted to spend all the time he could with her.

[Kachiti]

I do not base my belief that Edward was not CONTENTED IN HIS LIFE AGAIN KACHITI YOU DIDN'T GO BACK FAR ENOUGH TO SEE WHAT WAS SAID. EDWARD WAS NOT CONTENT. I WAS COMMENTING ON PEOPLE WHO SAID THAT EDWARD HATED HIMSELF AFTER HE MET BELLA. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MOVIE. SO PLEASE BEFORE YOU COMMENT OR SAY SOMEONE IS WRONG GET THE FULL PICTURE. I SAID EDWARD DID NOT HATE HIMSELF WHEN HE MET BELLA. PLEASE LOOK IT UP.

Yes, I read every post that is well posted here. Since page 11 you have stated you didn't that Edward was happy with his life before he met Bella. While nobody said he was happy most of the replies was that he was contented. Which you disagreed with and nobody faulted you that. Where I came in was to point out that the fact you were using this quote,

I thought of Bella and requited love. She couldn't love me the way I loved her--such an overpowering, all-consuming, crushing love would probably break her fragile body. But she felt strong enough. Enough to subdue the instintive fear . Enough to be with me. And being with her was the greatest happinest I have ever known.
For awhile --as I was all alone and hurting someoe else for a change--- I allowed myself to feel that happiness without dwelling on the tragedy. Just to be happy that she cared for me. Just to exult in triumph of winning her affection. Just to imagine day after day of sitting close to her hearing her voice and earning her smiles

I didn't agree and pointed that out by saying

That quote does not disprove what everyone else has been saying. It only proves that Edward was happy because Bella had feelings for him. The tragedy he refers to is the fragility of her human body not that he wasn't happy before he met her. He was content with life before her, which is what everyone has been saying. Being happy and content are not always the same thing.

From there you start go off. So you understand and maybe you missed the part where I stated to HOFJ that Edward didn't know something was missing from his life until he met Bella.

The reason I asked you if had read Twilight is your view aligns more with the movie then with the book.

[ringswraith]

No, diane771. That was in school, when he took her home after the blood typing incident.

What I and some others are trying to say is that when Edward first started realizing his feelings for her, he started hating himself at the same time. Those passages I quoted are examples of this: he wants to be with Bella, but he cannot reconcile with the monster in himself. He begins to loathe what he is because it prevents him from having a normal relationship with her.

In the end of course it's all moot- they end up together. But in this time frame being discussed, the beginning of their relationship, then yes, I do believe he truly hates himself. It even continues into New Moon, in the aftermath of the birthday party.

[holdingoutforjacob]

I think I have come up with a compromise.

We know that before he meets Bella Edward has come to the conclusion that he is a monster. He says that he has no soul. However, he has sort of accepted it and moved on. When Bella comes into his life that's when he begins to have some self-loathing issues.

I personally think he probably had those issues before, but Bella's existence exacerbated them.

[AnnetteandEdward]

I think I have come up with a compromise.

We know that before he meets Bella Edward has come to the conclusion that he is a monster. He says that he has no soul. However, he has sort of accepted it and moved on. When Bella comes into his life that's when he begins to have some self-loathing issues.

I personally think he probably had those issues before, but Bella's existence exacerbated them.

I stand firm on this - Edward didn't think he was a monster before except when he departed from the v-diet - but he did truly believed he was a monster when he saw himself with Bella because she was human and had a soul - agree he had self-loathing issues from the rebellious years but you are right he accepted what he was and what he had become. I would like to add that I believe that Edward wanted so much to be good and right that he was obsessed with it. He tried so hard to be perfect - in what he could be perfect in. HE never slipped up and made the family move - he tried - tried to hard sometimes.