Edward Cullen #5

[opulent]

Well, that was interesting. I think it comes down to, HOFJ and diane, that regardless of either sides of the issue, and regardless of either of your opinions, that no one is going to be able to stop anyone here from posting what they want to say about Edward.
Ergo, that being said, diane, I hope you don't leave, simply because you have a right to your opinion, and you have added some value to the discussions we have had on this thread.
So, I think we need to just get past this and get back to Edward himself.

Any new topics out there, anyone? Calling all volunteers!

[spicey16]

In Eclipse when bella realized she loved jacob by kissing him, and edward didnt get mad in the slightest, what was that? Is edward really the most ridiculously selfless person in the world, or was it part of his good guy game plan?

[opulent]

Oooh, good one! I have thought about this long and hard, believe it or not! And I came up with my answer after reading MS. No worries, ladies and germs, I will try not to spoil the plot of MS too much for those of you who haven't read it yet.

I initially thought that Edward was being honest, and, as you put it, "the most ridiculously selfless person in the world". However. . .Edward comments that Jacob fights dirtier than he does. Now, if you don't read very much into Edward's actions during this whole book, one might think him innocent, truly a selfless person who will sit back and let Bella do what she wants without a fight.

BUT. Reading deeper into things, I really think Edward is playing dirty. He knows what he is doing, and he is good enough not to let Bella figure it out. Jake figured it out, though, and told Bella, to which she replied that "Edward is not playing any game!" Naive, foolish, gullible Bella. Edward was playing hard and fast.

Edward may not feel he deserves Bella, but he knows to some extent how she views him. One of the most significant concepts that Bella has about Edward is that he is selfless. If Edward went all crazy at Bella over Jake's kiss, he would have shown her that he is definitely not as selfless or innocent as he seems, and that would not help his case. She would have realized that what he had said in the past wasn't completely true - y'know, the part about him being willing to leave if that was the decision she made? And things would have crumbled slightly from there.

But then again, we all know that Edward had to be crazed with jealousy over that kiss. He didn't show it much though. To me, that was in true selfless-Edward form. If he had shown how hurt he was, Bella would be in even more agony knowing how much pain she is causing Edward. Instead, he keeps it bottled up and tries to make her happy again. In true Edward fashion.

Honestly, I like Edward and the concept of him being "the perfect guy," even though he isn't. But this scene - and the idea that he is playing dirty to try and keep Bella - made me like him even more. It humanized him, made him realistic. He was so desperate to keep Bella that he fought dirty over her. . .And even better, he was so good at it, he did it without her knowing. Nice.

Now what I find interesting is that in MS, he promises himself that he would tell Bella the truth whenever possible, because she deserved honesty from him. Obviously, he lies to her several times. So. . .does this mean that he isn't as selfless as he seems, or that it is just a part of him and Jake playing dirty, and is therefore forgivable?

[holdingoutforjacob]

I don't like the concept of him "playing the good guy" at all, because it's so unfair in the scope of things. Edward, after all, has all the time in the world, and therefor the resources to play the good guy. So I don't know what I think about that, but I do know that I think part of the reason he was so okay with it is that he knew it was something that needed to happen for Bella to make a real choice.

[The Dark Knight]

I don't like the concept of him "playing the good guy" at all, because it's so unfair in the scope of things. Edward, after all, has all the time in the world, and therefor the resources to play the good guy. So I don't know what I think about that, but I do know that I think part of the reason he was so okay with it is that he knew it was something that needed to happen for Bella to make a real choice.

HOFJ, the reason I think you don't like Edward playing the "Nice Guy," is he ends up making a fool of Jacob, which we all know you adore. Kind of like how Diane love Edward. You two should have Team t-shirts...

That being said, I have notice when your own the Jacob thread you get upset when someone has a negative opinion of Jacob. I have notice that you have gotten more than a little defensive of your position not unlike Diane does about Edward. Maybe I'm all wet here, but we could take a moment to reflect a bit to find some middle ground. Lord knows, I'm not the one to post this but it does need to be said.

[opulent]

Well put, DK. And since you were so brave as to sacrifice yourself up, I got your back.

And HOFJ, to expound on what DK said, it's not so much the idea that your are defending Jacob or criticizing Edward. It's how you go about doing so that is the problem. You tend to be very abrasive when responding to someone that you disagree with. It's fine to disagree - just don't be rude or argumentative about it.
And don't take too much offense to what we are saying - we would say it to anyone with the same problem. A word to the wise, so that you maintain your upstanding reputation in the Lex community: Be nicer from now on.

[Kachiti]

Now what I find interesting is that in MS, he promises himself that he would tell Bella the truth whenever possible, because she deserved honesty from him. Obviously, he lies to her several times. So. . .does this mean that he isn't as selfless as he seems, or that it is just a part of him and Jake playing dirty, and is therefore forgivable?

Opulent,

I don't recall Edward lying to Bella. He opts not to tell her certain things but that isn't lying.

[opulent]

I am sorry, Kachiti, you are right. I should not have said he lied to her, at least not about anything major. But I guess you could call them lies of omission. There is a time or two when Bella asks Edward something, and while he doesn't lie to her outright, he keeps the truth from her. Case in point: When Victoria came to Forks at the beginning of Eclipse. Edward probably had several reasons for wanting to go to Florida, but the most pressing, and the one he didn't tell her was that Victoria was coming, and he wanted to get her out of town.

Which, I suppose, answers my own question, that this was an act of selflessness, simply because he didn't want Bella to worry.

[Kachiti]

I am sorry, Kachiti, you are right. I should not have said he lied to her, at least not about anything major. But I guess you could call them lies of omission. There is a time or two when Bella asks Edward something, and while he doesn't lie to her outright, he keeps the truth from her. Case in point: When Victoria came to Forks at the beginning of Eclipse. Edward probably had several reasons for wanting to go to Florida, but the most pressing, and the one he didn't tell her was that Victoria was coming, and he wanted to get her out of town.

Which, I suppose, answers my own question, that this was an act of selflessness, simply because he didn't want Bella to worry.

I think its a combination of both. 1. He's very concern about Bella's safety and 2. He knows how she will react if she knew. Case in point, when Jacob lets the information out of the bag.

[December]

Sigh. People, this is getting really old. It seems like I can't take my eyes off this thread for 24 hours without someone getting upset with someone else. This has got to stop.

1) First, to clarify: this is a discussion thread, not a Team thread. Different views of Edward are welcome. Persistent character-bashing is not ok, but I don't think anything anyone has said comes close to that.

2) I appreciate that you are all trying to speak honestly to one another, sort out your issues, and keep the thread a happy place. About 50% of the time you've been doing an awesome job -- and I'm grateful to you all. Unfortunately, the other 50% hasn't been so impressive --and it's only made things worse. So I'm going to request that you all stop telling each other what to do. If you think there is a problem, don't try and fix it yourself -- pm a mod (and please include a link so we can find it quickly); there are too many chiefs running around on these threads. And if nothing happens fast because mods have lives too...honestly, it's not the end of the world!

3) Chill out, people. If these conversations are getting you wound up, it's time to step back. If particular posters' views annoy you, IGNORE them. If they say something disagree able to you, IGNORE them. I can't repeat this enough. You're not going to change each other -- and you shouldn't be trying to! There are plenty of people on these threads; talk to the ones you can have a constructive conversation with, and leave the others alone!

This is the last time I'm going to say this. Next time you guys start quarrelling, I'm closing down the thread.


Ok...back to the current convo.