Edward and Bella 2

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opulent
Learning to Love Green
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by opulent »

The Dark Knight wrote:
Actually, if we humans found out Edward was a vampire and James too with Bella being an accomplice I dare say we would prosecute them, I mean kill them after the appropriate experimentation had been preformed...Evil begets evil right? So no whole in the theory at all...All of them are bad buys in human terms...
I can't say what the government would or wouldn't do. No, I guess I can agree that they would stick the vamps under a microscope. . .But I wouldn't say that they are all bad guys. The government might, but that doesn't mean I have to agree. How is Edward a bad guy? Even if it were from the cops' PoV, Edward was acting in defense of an innocent. They were equally matched opponents.

And thanks for the advice Dovrebanen. I was hoping no one was thinking I was getting too annoying on here, so in that case I will stay. 8-)

The Society for Creative Anachronism? Really? I went to sca.org. From what I know of you DK, sounds like something you would have founded. I actually love European history, especially history circa 15-19 centuries. Sounds fascinating.
And I already had Carlisle check me out, last week. He prescribed several antidepressants after informing me that there was no way I was dragging Edward away from Bella. I was crushed, but I am doing okay now. . . :lol: :lol: :lol:
And remember how I said you weren't too bad cause you haven't reached my brother's level yet? Well congrats, you have achieved that coveted spot. The reason he is so obnoxious is because he plays Devil's Advocate all the time. I can tell when he is, but only after years of practice. Does make our familial debates that much more interesting though. . . I hope you are happy 8-)
Last edited by opulent on Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Plus que ma propre vie."

The Dark Knight
Touched By Cold Hands
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:55 am

Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight »

opulent wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
Actually, if we humans found out Edward was a vampire and James too with Bella being an accomplice I dare say we would prosecute them, I mean kill them after the appropriate experimentation had been preformed...Evil begets evil right? So no whole in the theory at all...All of them are bad buys in human terms...
I can't say what the government would or wouldn't do. No, I guess I can agree that they would stick the vamps under a microscope. . .But I wouldn't say that they are all bad guys. The government might, but that doesn't mean I have to agree. How is Edward a bad guy? Even if it were from the cops' PoV, Edward was acting in defense of an innocent. They were equally matched opponents.

And thanks for the advice Dovrebanen. I was hoping no one was thinking I was getting too annoying on here, so in that case I will stay. 8-)
Oh no, not another Edward lover, :( It's getting awfully crowded in her by myself... ;) Ok then don't get a hobby but do get a life :lol: :lol: :lol: This Edward swooning just isn't good for you... :D

Actually Edward does murder a bunch of bad guys in his rebellious years. Murder has not statues of limitation so he could be prosecuted for all those poor bad guys he bumped off...

Oh you edited in more, yah I made the list... Yep the SCA is rather fun depending on where you are at...
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"Peaces is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice."

opulent
Learning to Love Green
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Location: Reading in Bed and listening to Vivaldi

Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by opulent »

I could have warned you that would happen. Sheesh, really, we all know that the series was written for lonely women worldwide. Who else did you think you would find on here? :D If you are just now realizing this then you seriously need a reality check.

And I do have a life, thank you very much. I have friends. Lots of them. The only problem is that they are all just as obsessed as I am.

I will give you the point about Edward being a murderer, and since you have been so tolerant of my Edward weaknesses, I will try to be impartial from now on. I will be logical and not let my feelings about Edward enter into any future discussion.


Okay, who am I kidding? :lol: :lol:

Oh, wow, gotta edit this one in. DK, what happened to the harness? Is it what I think it is? Hahaha...I am seriously crying right now at the picture I am getting of this one. Bwahahahahaha. Heh.
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"Plus que ma propre vie."

The Dark Knight
Touched By Cold Hands
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight »

opulent wrote:I could have warned you that would happen. Sheesh, really, we all know that the series was written for lonely women worldwide. Who else did you think you would find on here? :D If you are just now realizing this then you seriously need a reality check.

And I do have a life, thank you very much. I have friends. Lots of them. The only problem is that they are all just as obsessed as I am.

I will give you the point about Edward being a murderer, and since you have been so tolerant of my Edward weaknesses, I will try to be impartial from now on. I will be logical and not let my feelings about Edward enter into any future discussion.


Okay, who am I kidding? :lol: :lol:

Oh, wow, gotta edit this one in. DK, what happened to the harness? Is it what I think it is? Hahaha...I am seriously crying right now at the picture I am getting of this one. Bwahahahahaha. Heh.
Let's just say, that it was much more center that it should have been but after the first bounce it was all the way to it's side, if you know what I mean...I made sure that it was where it should be from that point on including repelling from the Huey's...yes I am from the school of hard knocks, graduated with high marks for missing the little details. ugh!!!

Just be yourself, it's much more fun that way... ;)

You know we really need to get back on topic here and soon or December is going to have my hide again...
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"Peaces is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice."

opulent
Learning to Love Green
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by opulent »

Okay, keep the mods happy. Got it.

I don't know if this is the right place for it, but it pertains to Edward and Bella, so here goes:
DK brought up Pride and Prejudice in another thread, and that got me thinking. Does anyone else here see any parallels between Edward and Bella and Elizabeth and Mr Darcy? I certainly do, but I want your ideas. . .
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"Plus que ma propre vie."

Asheleyo
Teaching Eric Social Graces
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Asheleyo »

I know I may be behind, but I was reading and couldn't resist anymore not commenting. I'm a math major, so I know a few things about logic. And here's what's wrong with your example situation with the meth lab. If Edward were the dealer giving the meth to the market, in this comparison, he would not have slipped the anti-freeze in himself. The more comparable situation would be Edward-the-meth-dealer selling a perfectly clean batch to his distributers. One of the distributers purposefully slips something lethal in to the drugs and then sells them to individuals. Edward-the-meth-dealer is responsible for the meth being there, but he is not responsible for the poison within it because someone else took the situation out of his hands.

It's like saying that because a parent has a gun in the house and a child knows where it is, then the parent is responsible for the kid grabbing the gun and shooting someone with it, no matter what warning the parents may have given about the dangers of guns.

I think the only place Edward and Bella would have had responsibility in deaths would be if Victoria came in the name of revenge and managed to take out one or more of the Cullens. Sure, Edward killed James and Victoria feels vindicated in her attempted retribution. So if Edward lets someone else get in the way of that retribution, if he doesn't face it head on and someone else gets killed in the process of protecting him and/or Bella, then he can hold some responsibility. But Victoria went so far out of the way as to bring in people who had nothing to do with the situation, completely innocent people. That decision is no responsibility of Edward or Bella's. Victoria takes full responsibility for their lives the minute she decides to change them against their will and use them to get even.
Precisely because death awaits us in the end, we must live fully.

Stars did fly toward each other, irresistibly, as if they were falling in love. And millions of years later, lovers on Earth drew together and fell in love, watching the stars fall.

The Dark Knight
Touched By Cold Hands
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight »

Cutting in below...
Asheleyo wrote:I know I may be behind, but I was reading and couldn't resist anymore not commenting. I'm a math major, so I know a few things about logic. And here's what's wrong with your example situation with the meth lab. If Edward were the dealer giving the meth to the market, in this comparison, he would not have slipped the anti-freeze in himself. The more comparable situation would be Edward-the-meth-dealer selling a perfectly clean batch to his distributers. One of the distributers purposefully slips something lethal in to the drugs and then sells them to individuals. Edward-the-meth-dealer is responsible for the meth being there, but he is not responsible for the poison within it because someone else took the situation out of his hands.

***Let me see if I can connect the dots for you better. Edward manufactured the drug pain and created the revenge that Victoria used to kill the 30+ kids in Seattle. As we all know the drug that is pain and revenge is powerful and should be forseeable but missed. Edward missed how much Victoria cared about James twice. He didn't read her at the baseball game and later he didn't question Laurent about it after leaving Bella in New Moon. Does this help clear up how Edward would fit in the drug analogy?

It's like saying that because a parent has a gun in the house and a child knows where it is, then the parent is responsible for the kid grabbing the gun and shooting someone with it, no matter what warning the parents may have given about the dangers of guns.

***Yes I agree the parent is responsible in this case. Even the courts agree with this. Although Victoria is not Edwards minor to take care of so this does not track as well.

I think the only place Edward and Bella would have had responsibility in deaths would be if Victoria came in the name of revenge and managed to take out one or more of the Cullens. Sure, Edward killed James and Victoria feels vindicated in her attempted retribution. So if Edward lets someone else get in the way of that retribution, if he doesn't face it head on and someone else gets killed in the process of protecting him and/or Bella, then he can hold some responsibility. But Victoria went so far out of the way as to bring in people who had nothing to do with the situation, completely innocent people. That decision is no responsibility of Edward or Bella's. Victoria takes full responsibility for their lives the minute she decides to change them against their will and use them to get even.

***I get your point but I don't buy it. I guess it comes down to this, do you believe in persoanl responsibility for your action or not. If not, then why have any laws at all? Off topic a bit, would you give the Devil the benefit of law?
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"Peaces is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice."

holdingoutforjacob
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by holdingoutforjacob »

So you're comparing Edward to the Devil?

I'm all for personal accountability. I hold Victoria accountable for her decisions as a grown woman. I hold James accountable for his decisions as a grown man.

What would you have had Edward do, DK??? Let Bella die so that in the event that MAYBE Victoria could seek revenge and MAYBE she'd take it out on Bella and MAYBE she'd build a vampire army he wouldn't be responsible??? That's the right thing to do in your opinion?

What if it was your true love on the line?
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death cannot stop true love, it can only delay it for a while...

The Dark Knight
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight »

holdingoutforjacob wrote:So you're comparing Edward to the Devil?

I'm all for personal accountability. I hold Victoria accountable for her decisions as a grown woman. I hold James accountable for his decisions as a grown man.

What would you have had Edward do, DK??? Let Bella die so that in the event that MAYBE Victoria could seek revenge and MAYBE she'd take it out on Bella and MAYBE she'd build a vampire army he wouldn't be responsible??? That's the right thing to do in your opinion?

What if it was your true love on the line?
Very good question HOFJ. Here's what I would have done, I would have killed James & Victoria at the baseball game & decided after soem strong interagation whether Laurent woudl live or not...Quote from Tomb Stone, Dr Holiday, "Why put of killen someone today when your just going to have to kill him tomorrow?" Problem sovled

I am not comparing Edward to the Devil at this point, maybe later...What I am doing is seeing if anyone here would give the Devil the benefit of law or not. It's very telling how one answers...
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"Peaces is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice."

Dovrebanen
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Dovrebanen »

I strongly believe in personal accountability. But only when it is justified and directed at the right person. Like HOFJ...I hold Victoria and James accountable for what they did. Yo can't hold someone accountable for events that they had no control over.
The Dark Knight wrote: Very good question HOFJ. Here's what I would have done, I would have killed James & Victoria at the baseball game & decided after soem strong interagation whether Laurent woudl live or not...Quote from Tomb Stone, Dr Holiday, "Why put of killen someone today when your just going to have to kill him tomorrow?" Problem sovled
So that would make Edward a better man in your opinion? To kill people right there on the spot. From what he knew at the time, Victoria was innocent and didn't know what James had planned. And for all he knew, Laurent was the leader and could possibly stop James. It was all a charade of course. But Edward didn't know that. And he was way to focused on Bella to look into their minds. And who can blame him for that..

To kill them in the field would have been going against what the Cullens believed in. And of course Edward was more worried about getting Bella out of there than killing James on the spot. What would she do during a fight in the baseball field? Just stand there while no one watched over her, and so anyone could take a snap at her?
How could Edward even think about Victoria maybe seeking revenge for her lost lover, that Edward didn't even know she had? And that she would create an army? No..You just can't hold Edward personally accountable for that. Too many events and decisons made in between to make that his responsiblity.
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