Jacob Black #2

Character Discussion Forum

Moderators: December, Bronze Haired Girl, una

Forum rules
Character Discussion Forum

Click for Forum Rules
ringswraith
Running with Leah 'cause she thinks I'm hawt
Posts: 4633
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by ringswraith » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:03 pm

My response was directed at Angelvamp and her comment about Edward, why he'd be upset with Jacob.
holdingoutforjacob wrote:JG - I know, I understand how much emotion must have been there, but that's no excuse to take it out on someone who can't help it. I don't care if she's a mother, a child, a father, a grandparent, a duck. I really don't. There's a right and wrong way to treat people, especially people who you owe a lot to. That was the wrong way. I understand how she was feeling and how she was upset and why she was upset and obviously all those emotions are justified, but that doesn't give her the right to ACT the way she did. There's a big separation between FEELING and ACTION.
I believe the opposite. She had every right to blow up the way she did. She's a mother. It's just the way it is. There's no rationalizing the bond between mother and child. :)

That being said, with both Edward and Jasper present, they really should have been keeping closer attention to what was happening and been there to hold her back.

diane771
Red-Eyed Vampire
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by diane771 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:05 pm

ringswraith wrote:My response was directed at Angelvamp and her comment about Edward, why he'd be upset with Jacob.
holdingoutforjacob wrote:JG - I know, I understand how much emotion must have been there, but that's no excuse to take it out on someone who can't help it. I don't care if she's a mother, a child, a father, a grandparent, a duck. I really don't. There's a right and wrong way to treat people, especially people who you owe a lot to. That was the wrong way. I understand how she was feeling and how she was upset and why she was upset and obviously all those emotions are justified, but that doesn't give her the right to ACT the way she did. There's a big separation between FEELING and ACTION.
I believe the opposite. She had every right to blow up the way she did. She's a mother. It's just the way it is. There's no rationalizing the bond between mother and child. :)

That being said, with both Edward and Jasper present, they really should have been keeping closer attention to what was happening and been there to hold her back.
I think that it bother Edward and though is attention was on Bella, I think he felt a little left out when Renesmee boned with Jacob, Jasper and Emmett were just waiting for Bella to go off like a new born should so he was standing back also. And of course Bella would have had the same reaction if she was a human. No doubt about it.
Image
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/rules-dont-stop-me
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/i-dont-care0001

Jazz Girl
Making beautiful music with Edward as only I can
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Rob's HalfwayHouse, shacked up with some FicWard.

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by Jazz Girl » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:29 pm

holdingoutforjacob wrote:JG - I know, I understand how much emotion must have been there, but that's no excuse to take it out on someone who can't help it. I don't care if she's a mother, a child, a father, a grandparent, a duck. I really don't. There's a right and wrong way to treat people, especially people who you owe a lot to. That was the wrong way. I understand how she was feeling and how she was upset and why she was upset and obviously all those emotions are justified, but that doesn't give her the right to ACT the way she did. There's a big separation between FEELING and ACTION.

HofJ~ I'm not being condescending, just honest. Until you are a mother, you CAN'T understand. It's just not possible. I used to, before I became a mother, try to rationalize the things my mom did and said when it came to me and my brother. My mom wasn't the greatest parent, a lot like Renee actually. Caught in her own world a lot of the time. Because of that, I was left to my own devices a lot of the time, not really parenting her so much as just taking care of myself. But, when the chips were down and things were going wrong in my life, my mother would come charging in like some avenging beast, ready to throw down with anyone and anything that hurt me. I HATED that, because it made me feel like she was interfering, like she thought I couldn't handle myself. Then I became a mother. I knew instantly. I didn't care the threat or the person. I would stare down God itself if it meant protecting my children from something I thought was going to hurt them. It honestly is a feeling so raw and feral that you can't understand it until you've experienced it. When I read those paragraphs, I'm honestly surprised she didn't do more damage.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Image
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS

diane771
Red-Eyed Vampire
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by diane771 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:34 pm

Jazz,
I really don't think even a man can understand the bond between a mother and child, and yes there are a lot of not very good mom's out there, but its something I believe born into a woman at birth. Its instinct and its just there.
Image
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/rules-dont-stop-me
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/i-dont-care0001

Jazz Girl
Making beautiful music with Edward as only I can
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Rob's HalfwayHouse, shacked up with some FicWard.

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by Jazz Girl » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:46 pm

diane771 wrote:Jazz,
I really don't think even a man can understand the bond between a mother and child, and yes there are a lot of not very good mom's out there, but its something I believe born into a woman at birth. Its instinct and its just there.
I might argue that Jake could understand it after he imprints on Ness. Hence the stupidity of trying to put himself between a mother and her newborn. But, I see your point. I try very hard to be gender neutral in my life, so I can't say I agree completely. But, I understand your point.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Image
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS

diane771
Red-Eyed Vampire
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by diane771 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:03 pm

Jazz Girl wrote:
diane771 wrote:Jazz,
I really don't think even a man can understand the bond between a mother and child, and yes there are a lot of not very good mom's out there, but its something I believe born into a woman at birth. Its instinct and its just there.
I might argue that Jake could understand it after he imprints on Ness. Hence the stupidity of trying to put himself between a mother and her newborn. But, I see your point. I try very hard to be gender neutral in my life, so I can't say I agree completely. But, I understand your point.
Well Jacob imprinting is just so strange to grasp to me, and I am sure that even though Jacob explained it to her. Bella really couldn't imagine something like that happening around her, and she wasn't even going to have a child, so this one was so special to her. I don't think imprinting still is as deep as the mother's bond, but thats just how I see it.
Image
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/rules-dont-stop-me
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/i-dont-care0001

AliceLauren
Banging Out Dents with Tyler
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:14 pm
Location: Avoiding the bad vamps in Texas
Contact:

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by AliceLauren » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:54 pm

diane771 wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:
diane771 wrote:Jazz,
I really don't think even a man can understand the bond between a mother and child, and yes there are a lot of not very good mom's out there, but its something I believe born into a woman at birth. Its instinct and its just there.
I might argue that Jake could understand it after he imprints on Ness. Hence the stupidity of trying to put himself between a mother and her newborn. But, I see your point. I try very hard to be gender neutral in my life, so I can't say I agree completely. But, I understand your point.
Well Jacob imprinting is just so strange to grasp to me, and I am sure that even though Jacob explained it to her. Bella really couldn't imagine something like that happening around her, and she wasn't even going to have a child, so this one was so special to her. I don't think imprinting still is as deep as the mother's bond, but thats just how I see it.

Well if imprinting is as strong as Jake says then wouldn't imprinting be like motherhood? Or fatherhood in this case, but more extreme. Because they love that one person so much that they'd do anything for them and be anything for them.
Image

diane771
Red-Eyed Vampire
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by diane771 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:58 pm

Isn't that a mother, how could imprinting be greater love than the love of a mother to their child?
Image
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/rules-dont-stop-me
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/i-dont-care0001

Angelvamp
Teaching Eric Social Graces
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:35 am

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by Angelvamp » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:27 am

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I think it is unfair to say that someone cannot "understand" something if they have not experienced it. They may not be able to empathize or know the actual depth of emotion involved, but to say someone can't comprehend something until it is experienced seems like a cop-out argument to me. Just because someone haven't experienced something doesn't negate their opinion about it, or even their right to have an opinion on it. I think I very much understood motherhood before and I really don't think my views have changed now that I am a mother. I admit, there are situations that I have a better understanding about, but my comprehension of parenthood and the feelings involved is the same as it was.

Does that make sense?
"Life is pain...anyone who tells you different is selling something."

Jazz Girl
Making beautiful music with Edward as only I can
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Rob's HalfwayHouse, shacked up with some FicWard.

Re: Jacob Black #2

Post by Jazz Girl » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:33 am

Angelvamp wrote:I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I think it is unfair to say that someone cannot "understand" something if they have not experienced it. They may not be able to empathize or know the actual depth of emotion involved, but to say someone can't comprehend something until it is experienced seems like a cop-out argument to me. Just because someone haven't experienced something doesn't negate their opinion about it, or even their right to have an opinion on it. I think I very much understood motherhood before and I really don't think my views have changed now that I am a mother. I admit, there are situations that I have a better understanding about, but my comprehension of parenthood and the feelings involved is the same as it was.

Does that make sense?
It makes complete sense. To clarify, when I said it was impossible to "understand" until one is a mother, I did not mean comprehend, I meant, as you said, to know just how deep those feelings run or what it is like to experience them, to feel and experience that reaction when you feel your child is threatened or you might loses her, him or them. I think, to understand Bella's reaction, to truly grasp why she reacted as strongly as she did, it helps if you've been there.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Image
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS

Post Reply