Edward Cullen #6

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Esme echo
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Esme echo »

Well, Heart_in_Hand, I think if a woman wants a man "like Edward," she ought to resist the temptation to find something close and then try to mold what she got into what she wants! I'm totally on board with communication in a partnership, but as far as "getting what she wants," I hope the woman's aspirations go no further than, "Dear, would you please try to remember to put the toothpaste cap back on?"

(On a side note, I also think complaining about your partner to someone else is extremely disloyal in a relationship -- unless something illegal or dangerous is going on. Relationships should be above gossipy snipping with friends.)

I think it is wrong and fruitless for a woman to try to mold a man into what she wants. People don't change. I wish I could brand that into every young girl's brain: PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE. If he's rude or thoughtless when you meet him, he's gonna be rude or thoughtless four, ten, or twenty years down the road. Don't expect anything different, and don't criticize him for being who he is. If you don't like it, don't start anything.

I think Bella was extremely lucky. She fell rather quickly for Edward's public personna, and fortunately, the inner Edward turned out to be a perfect match for her. What if Twilight had proceeded as written until the Meadow scene, and then Edward had turned into some arrogant brute who enjoyed inflicting pain and terror? Would she have been the helpless victim caught in the snake's mesmerizing gaze? If this story had not been about the supernatural, if we were talking about real life relationships, Bella took a real chance, falling for someone she knew nothing about.
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diane771
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by diane771 »

Have any of you girls (or guys I suppose) ever been complaining about something your boyfriend/husband/significant other did to someone else and gotten the response "that's just men" or "well, what can you expect? He's a man."???
I feel like too often, women make excuses like this for men, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. As if just because he was born with *ahem* male genitals he is free to act like the essential Cave Man that this article apparently describes as the "normal" man. I agree with JG that all men should at least listen to their women when they talk about what they want in a man, whether that is based strongly on the characteristics of Edward, Jacob, the girls father, or something else entirely.
Well I am trying to relate this to Edward and the people who love and hate him. I never read though in the books but I could be wrong that Bella ever passed off Edwards behavior as "that's just men" or anything like that. To me it seems that the detractors of Edward tend to use that when defending Jacob's behavior and overlook the fact that Edward only wanted to make Bella happy.

I am not sure if that is what you are refering to but to me by reading your post that is what I get out of it. Bella wanted Edward just as he was and never made excuses for him at least not that I can remember. Even when he left, she knew deep down why he did that. She took him back not "he's a man they do that" But as Edward loves me and only did what he felt best and though he hurt me I do understand why he left. Men seem to see Edward as a sucker than a man who is committed to what he wants and is willing to go for the long haul. Some think that is foolish of Edward to have a triangle with Jacob, but its what Edward wants so he waits till Bella makes that desision because he knows if he pressures her that it would never work out. Edward has a strong character and not weak at all and that bothers some poeple.

This is my opinion but if you meant something else Heart_in_ Hand let me know.
Last edited by diane771 on Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Heart_in_Hand
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Heart_in_Hand »

Huh... it seems my post was not clear at all. Let me see if I can clear this up.

First off, what I meant by "a man like Edward" is basically like what JazzGirl has said in the sense that every girl deserves a guy who will treat her well, make her his number one priority, care for her, and love her unconditionally. Just that, plain and simple. I do not idealize Edward. He does have his flaws, like any other man or woman. The way he loved Bella was very right though, and I think all men could learn a thing or two from that.

Whether or not a man makes the bed or puts the cap back on the toothpaste should really be irrelevant to a relationship. If you truly love a man, I would think that you would be able to look past these tiny flaws, just as he should be able to look past the fact that you don't fold his clothes the way he likes. Just because a man doesn't do everything just right doesn't mean you can't love them, or that you shouldn't be with them. I'm was just saying that there are certain behaviors (such as frequently being late, often forgetting or ignoring your requests, making major decisions without consulting you first) that we have come to accept and expect as "normal" for a man. I think this is wrong, because excusing these things and not holding the man responsible for his actions sends the message that he can continue to do these things without consequence. I agree that if the guy you are with does these kinds of things all too often, and you feel that he just isn't the right one for you, then you should not try to change him; you should simply move on. I didn't mean to imply that at all.

As for the complaining thing. I also have a major problem with people talking about others behind their back, especially people they are supposed to love or be good friends with. It's actually one of my pet peeves. I was referring to when you are hanging out with your good girl friends and the subject turns to men. Can any woman honestly say that when they are with their girlfriends, they don't sometimes get to talking about their partners?

For example, lets say the other day my fiance (yes, I'm engaged) is working on the computer and I come in and ask him to please remember to put the dishes away. Then, the next day he still has not done it. This is not a cause for a big blow out between me and him, and we may discuss it, but what can really be done? So later when I am out with my best friend for a girls night we get to talking about how "men just never listen". So you see how that is excusing that behavior as acceptable because "men are just that way". We come to expect less out of our guys because we allow them to use their sex as an excuse.

On the other hand, lets say we are having guests over tomorrow, and the house needs to be vacuumed. So, my fiance vacuums the entire house while I am at work, so I don't have to do it when I get home. Later I'm sure to tell my girlfriends about this wonderful and thoughtful act. (And is that so wrong?) However, why is it that nobody will say in this case "well, that's just how men are! Always so sweet and thoughtful!" Why should this kind of behavior be the exception, not the rule?

to diane: I guess I wasn't really referring specifically to Edward in my post much at all. I was mostly commenting on the article JazzGirl brought up on the last thread, because I wasn't here to discuss it when it was new. I don't want to detract anything from Edward. In fact, I think Edward represents the opposite of what I am describing here. He never makes Bella want to say "I guess that's just how men are" because he nearly always behaves like the man in my second example. I have to admit the rest of your post was a little confusing to me. I can tell you that I wasn't thinking about any of those things when I made my original post, so hopefully that is enough to assure you that I didn't mean anything like that.
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The Dark Knight
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by The Dark Knight »

Not sure I should answer this query or not.

Let me just say, that men put up with a lot too that they find less that favourable with women's attitudes and actions these days. The modern woman leaves a lot to be desired for as well. Shall we enumerate the lack of ladies manors that are shall we say non-existent anymore? I think that would lead to an all out brawl but it must be said just to maintain all fairness here.

I could point out that if a woman wants a Victorian era style virtue man then they should perhaps act like a Victorian style virtue women first. But that would likely not be acceptable to must of the fairer sex on the Lex or the general populace at large. Yes I do fully understand what would be expected of both genders.

For the sake of argument neither gender is pulling their weight in the department of decorum by and large. I have witnessed many of the fairer sex give list of complaints about their choices of mate and their lack of qualities. If they had looked in the mirror they would find themselves lacking just a many if not more of the qualities need to get such a person. I guess what I am saying is be worthy of your aspirations for they are out there but will not stoop to find their equal either.

Edit: another point should be made, there are fewer males alive than females at present world wide. This also leads to fewer choices and poorer quality too.

I have heard the lament in the male gender that, “women finds the perfect man then set’s about changing them.” It’s a stereo type that has its basis in truth. How often have you encountered a male asking/demanding that their spouse has to change their base personally?

Interesting thread.

2nd edit: I think Edward will have to put up with many faults that Bella brings to the table as well. She is likely to have many issues when it comes to decorum. How many go to finishing school now days? For that matter how many even know what I'm talking aobut?
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una
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by una »

Interesting query posted and reminder, let's keep this topic on Edward, please. Anything else should go to a PM if you guys are going to go off-topic or it doesn't come back and relate to our discussions on Edward as a character.

No "partner" is perfect. But I agree, you must accept your partner for who they are because you cannot go into a relationship thinking you can change someone. I think Bella accepted Edward as he is, even with his faults. Edward does do things that upset her, he left her, he tried to keep her from Jacob, he does get overprotective of her. However, I feel that Edward in the course of the books does change. He realizes (and this is most notably seen in Eclipse) this when he allows Bella to FINALLY make the choice between Jacob and him. Not that either guy didn't try to forward their case, but Edward tried to give her the space she needed. I feel Edward was a more mature male in Breaking Dawn because of the growth that occurred in Eclipse. Plus once Bella became a vampire, he was able to relax and not feel compelled to be overprotective, just protective as any man who loves a woman would.

I would discuss the flip side of this discussion, but that should be for the Bella thread. :D Unless we pull this into the Edward and Bella thread.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by The Dark Knight »

una wrote:Interesting query posted and reminder, let's keep this topic on Edward, please. Anything else should go to a PM if you guys are going to go off-topic or it doesn't come back and relate to our discussions on Edward as a character.

No "partner" is perfect. But I agree, you must accept your partner for who they are because you cannot go into a relationship thinking you can change someone. I think Bella accepted Edward as he is, even with his faults. Edward does do things that upset her, he left her, he tried to keep her from Jacob, he does get overprotective of her. However, I feel that Edward in the course of the books does change. He realizes (and this is most notably seen in Eclipse) this when he allows Bella to FINALLY make the choice between Jacob and him. Not that either guy didn't try to forward their case, but Edward tried to give her the space she needed. I feel Edward was a more mature male in Breaking Dawn because of the growth that occurred in Eclipse. Plus once Bella became a vampire, he was able to relax and not feel compelled to be overprotective, just protective as any man who loves a woman would.

I would discuss the flip side of this discussion, but that should be for the Bella thread. :D Unless we pull this into the Edward and Bella thread.

i think if you like Una this could be best brought into the E&B thread. that way we have the most lattitude for explaoration...We like rabbit wholes
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una
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by una »

Okay Dark Knight, I'll add this query to the E&B thread.

Rabbit holes? I am newbie here, please explain, is this some new lingo I'm too old to understand?

New question for this thread then...

What do you feel the future holds for Edward? With the new found control he has over blood (seen with Bella in Breaking Dawn do you think he'll be able to follow in Carlisle footsteps now?
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diane771
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by diane771 »

Well Una, I think with all the testing that Edward went through by falling in love with a human, yes i do think he has already. I am sure Carlisle is proud of him and how he over came his thirst for human blood, but I do think he has pass the test with flying colors.
First, he was expose to Bella in a way that he never had before. The scent of her and the overwhelming desire to kill her.
Second, he was exposed to Bella's family and fitted in and really didn't even get Charlie's sucuspicion until Jacob told him about himself. He pass ok with Renee and other humans
Third, he learned how to control himself and wait for things to come about. That is evident in Edward giving Bella the time to make up her mind about him and also not pushing or even wanting her to change into a vampire. He took a lot of things from Jacob, that most men would never have with their girlfriends, but he was willing to wait.
Fourth, when he did not lose it on his honeymoon night and kill her was most likely the ultimate test of your will power to control your vampire urges and overcome them
Edward is going to he a wonderful dad, and he will be learning from both Bella and Renesmee at the same time, because that is Edward's nature to do and that is what makes him like Carlisle and not the other vampires.
These are few things that I think that he has overcome and grown to be able to follow in Carlisle's footsteps, and I think that Carlisle must be very proud of him by BD.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by The Dark Knight »

OK Una, Rabbit holes, think Alice in Wonderland, you neve know what's down there and in what direction it will lead...fun to explore everything. Some of it directly involving the thread, some personal inquires that all can learn from and others just out there. We do come back to where the trhead is fairly soon though...beware of the chersher cat with the hooka.. :lol:

Here's your e-ticket for the next ride... ;)

I think Edward can follow Carlisle but it will be in the third world where they are much less likely to look at your creditials...say South America...He has a new found control but it hasn't been tested fully yet...We shall see.

Beside he has a lot of raising to do, both Bella and Nessie need him to help guide them to maturity...maybe after the first hundred years or so they finally be able to handle the world... :o
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una
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by una »

The Dark Knight wrote:OK Una, Rabbit holes, think Alice in Wonderland, you neve know what's down there and in what direction it will lead...fun to explore everything. Some of it directly involving the thread, some personal inquires that all can learn from and others just out there. We do come back to where the trhead is fairly soon though...beware of the chersher cat with the hooka.. :lol:

Here's your e-ticket for the next ride... ;)
Hey, I know what an e-ticket is, very cool, thank you! Was too young to actually get to use one, but I know what it is! :D Thanks for clarifying the rabbit hole! But I must say, the Cheshire Cat is my favorite character from that book! :lol:

What maturing does Bella need, as a shield she doesn't exhibit normal newborn behavior. She may need a little support, but not much. Renesemee's growth rate is fantastic. She maybe an adult sooner than you expect, so how much nurturing does Edward need to do, plus the fact that the Cullen coven will want to assist and I can't see Edward and Bella refusing. I could see this as an opportunity for Edward to be able to embrace that dream of being a doctor. I think the safe bet is for him to enroll in college and go through and get his medical degree. With the labs and such (provided he can avoid the sun while doing it) should provide a good test for him. Also, with Carlisle's assistance he could (if he goes the forge document route) intern under Carlisle so he can see (with Carlisle's oversight) if he is able to keep his thirst at bay.

Ha, if Bella becomes a nurse, maybe she can shield both of them from the "smell".
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