Twilight Lexicon Discussion Forums

DK,
Are you a man of no forgiveness? Are you a man who makes no mistakes. he who is without sin cast the first stone How many times do you have to keep this up??? I used to like Kool-aide now its Vitamin Water lets get that straight now.
If Edward told Bella he hadn't killed, and that he was no danger to her, even if he had this overwhelming desire to kill her. I could see your point maybe about Edward, being on the Evil side, but its quite the opposite. Edward doesn't brag about what he did, he doesn't think that it was good, he has tried to make amends by living a clean life till he met Bella. F-O-R-G-I-V-E = CEASE TO FEEL ANGRY OR RESENTFUL TOWARDS. If someone human or non human who clearly knows that they are sorry and repentive and change their life around for the good and strive everyday to stay that way. Then who is the perfect person who can not forgive the other for their bad deeds? Who are what is pure enough to pass judgement on something that they do not understand? You can not be in the mind of a vampire, you can not be in the mind of Edward, and to condemn something that they did when it was their instinctive nature to do and then he turns his life around is irrevocablely judgemental.
Enough preaching back to the kool aide

DK,

I found the post interesting but if you think it proves the Edward is a wolf then you are highly mistaken. Why I don't agree with locking people into categories because of our very nature to change. I would say that Edward is a sheepdog, he will protect those he love with his life if necessary.

DK let me say that it is obvious that you are intellectual man, something I admired. I like things that challenge my thinking because it either make me change my mind or make what I believe in stronger. While Edward is not my favorite character as you know, I don't see the evil that you want me or the others to see. I and several others have even told why that is. By your posts everything is either black or white, one way or the other. There is no gray or middle ground but in Twilight and even in the real world, there is. You look at Edward past sins and that's all you see, which by the way covers less than 5% of the whole series. The rest of 95% is fill with love, compassion, redemption and forgiving. You have stated that we need to take off the blinders and see Edward for what he really is. The things is we do but for some strange reason you refuse to.

Maybe it would help if I put this in another way. When someone dies whether it be by his own hand or by another, the first question that comes to mind is, Why? What was the motive? Oh! there's that word again. The police, the family, the lawyer and judge are going to want to know what the motivation behind it was, in other words, the why. Its like reading a murder mystery and finding out who did it but not why the murder was committed in the first place. That wouldn't make for a good read.

Edward is not perfect, he flawed and in some ways damaged, that is something we all agree on. In his eyes he is a monster but he fails to see (like you) everything he has done to make up for those past crimes. However, with Bella's love and his family he finally learns that.

Then I leave the feild for you all to discuss as you wish. I will bother you no more.

The Dark Knight wrote:Then I leave the feild for you all to discuss as you wish. I will bother you no more.

No one ever said you were a bother if anything you offered a challenge, a really different way of looking at Edward. And like I said, I so enjoy those.

Well what can I say now! Such public display of A little heartfelt self commentary, could never hurt anyone here, now and then.

I want to apologize to everyone here. Heart-in-hand is correct and I am truly sorry if my lack of consideration has caused anyone to be upset. It was not done by any intent and was not meant to overtake this topic at all. But I do see where I have came off wrong and do want to let everyone know that I am sorry and will not let it happen again.

Guys, let's make a fresh start then. This thread has a new mod following it (that'd be me) and I am also (as I have stated before) new to this forum...I typically hang out in a different forum. However, I do love to have serious discussions about Twilight it is what brought me here since I had no one to discuss any of this with when I first found Twilight.

Again, side comments are okay, but the majority of your post MUST be about the character discussion. Also, please when making a comment, back up your statements, there is no right or wrong answers/responses, this is for discussion and theorizing and insightful AND respectful debate. If the side comments take over, I will bring out my "swatting-tool." If you need/want to pursue a side comment or discussion, please take it to a PM.

So now we need a character discussion question regarding Edward. How do you feel Edward is handling the imprinting between Jacob and Renesmee. As she ages, what type of father do you think Edward will be? How will handle the changing relationship that is bound to occur between Jacob and Renesmee? Do you feel that Edward had a similar reaction to the imprinting that Bella did, we just were not able to see it since Bella was in her transition?

Hurray! I think this thread needed a new start, with ALL the same posters (DK and diane that means you, don't even THINK of leaving!) to continue contributing. Thanks so much Una!

I like the question(s) you posed, as well.

I really don't think we can say what kind of father Edward will be. He will be a good one, I'm sure, but so much of that depends on what type of father you consider good, and there are just so many different types of good fathers. I think he will be good with Nessie because she is so, well, not a baby. I don't see him as being very much of a baby/small child person. That's not, like, a character issue, some people are just kid people.

I think Edward will handle the relationship between Jacob and Nessie both better and worse than Bella. He has the advantage/disadvantage of being able to read Jacob's mind. So he will probably have the same basic, emotional response as Bella, but he will also see what's going on in Jacob's head, which will give him more insight into the situation. But he will also know what Jacob's thinking when he looks at Nessie when she's an adult, the way a man looks at the woman he loves. When they fight, he will hear all of Jacob's irrational thoughts, the ones we all have in anger. That will have to be hard.

I think that Bella handled the situation terribly first of all, and Edward seems to have handled it pretty beautifully. But he, again, had more insight into the situation. He could see all of the emotions Jacob had, and he could see that he was confused and this wasn't what he wanted either, etc. He was more capable of putting himself in Jacob's shoes and seeing all sides of the situation than Bella. I also think - don't rake me across the coals for this - but I also think that he's not as possessive as Bella is over Nessie. I'm sure he loves her just as much, but is there a stronger connection between a mother and her newborn??

Forgive me, this is a stupid question, but can Edward read Nessie's mind?? I can't remember.

holdingoutforjacob wrote:Hurray! I think this thread needed a new start, with ALL the same posters (DK and diane that means you, don't even THINK of leaving!) to continue contributing. Thanks so much Una!

I like the question(s) you posed, as well.

I really don't think we can say what kind of father Edward will be. He will be a good one, I'm sure, but so much of that depends on what type of father you consider good, and there are just so many different types of good fathers. I think he will be good with Nessie because she is so, well, not a baby. I don't see him as being very much of a baby/small child person. That's not, like, a character issue, some people are just kid people.

I think Edward will handle the relationship between Jacob and Nessie both better and worse than Bella. He has the advantage/disadvantage of being able to read Jacob's mind. So he will probably have the same basic, emotional response as Bella, but he will also see what's going on in Jacob's head, which will give him more insight into the situation. But he will also know what Jacob's thinking when he looks at Nessie when she's an adult, the way a man looks at the woman he loves. When they fight, he will hear all of Jacob's irrational thoughts, the ones we all have in anger. That will have to be hard.

I think that Bella handled the situation terribly first of all, and Edward seems to have handled it pretty beautifully. But he, again, had more insight into the situation. He could see all of the emotions Jacob had, and he could see that he was confused and this wasn't what he wanted either, etc. He was more capable of putting himself in Jacob's shoes and seeing all sides of the situation than Bella. I also think - don't rake me across the coals for this - but I also think that he's not as possessive as Bella is over Nessie. I'm sure he loves her just as much, but is there a stronger connection between a mother and her newborn??

Forgive me, this is a stupid question, but can Edward read Nessie's mind?? I can't remember.

Yes, he was able to her mind while she was still in the womb.

Quickly, I wanted to note that I think Edward is a sheepdog with the natural (as in by nature of being a vampire) always just a subconscious slip away from being a wolf. By choice he is a protector. If he can't control his nature, he is one terrifying wolf.

But father stuff...yeah. I think it's significantly easier for Edward (and Bella) being parents because they get to start off right away with a fully aware child. No development necessary to communicate effectively. If all parents got to start with that I think we'd have a lot more "good parents." So yes, I think he'll be a good father, but I think he'll drift more into a capacity of peer than parent because of Nessie's nature. (Rosalie will be the aunt that unconditionally spoils her niece)

I think, considering how Edward can hear Jacob's thoughts, Edward didn't handle the imprint all that well. I'm actually reading this section of Breaking Dawn right now, so it's very fresh. He was quite irritable with Jacob and only respected his right to be in Nessie's life because Jacob had no choice. However, he didn't like it. He gritted his teeth a lot and made snide comments. But he is naturally being a protective and possessive parent.

When Nessie is mature and the relationship between her and Jacob is also more mature, I think it will be a testament to Edward's character as to how he handles being around that. I imagine there will be an internal struggle between wanting to take his daughter's side in arguments and supporting the person he knows (by thoughts) is being more rational and correct. And who in this world would be able to sit there and listen to any juicy details dished out about their daughter without grinding their teeth? Especially since she'll only technically be a few years old. It's a lot to grow accustomed to in such a short time. I feel for him.

No matter how strong Bella may feel, she will have to take second place in the upset parent line. Edward may very well envy her lack of ability to hear thoughts when it comes to this.