Edward Cullen #6

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marielle
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by marielle »

I love the complexity of Edward... specially after reading midnight sun.
At first I was like Bella totally in love with him but after reading MS I began to see his flaws and his positive sides.

What defines Edward are his special hearing and his fears but also his needs.
Due to his special hearing he has always known quite a lot about people, the way people think, etc, and with that came I think the arrogance that he started to think he knew everything, meeting Bella puts him back down to earth. He now sees that not all human are as he thinks they are...

His fear for becoming/being a monster is always there...Like jasper he believes it is a part of what he is ( of being a Vampire)
because Carlisle "raised" him with the core trait compasion he has worked so hard not to be a monster but it is always there. the need to feed. the fear of ruining everything he worked for.
I also think he always needed emotional support, and he found that with Bella. somebody who could point out his positive side.

What also defines him is the way he is stuck in the 1900's, he behaves exactly like he is still living in that time... like a real gentleman...
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Asheleyo
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Asheleyo »

Esme echo wrote:I don't think Edward is given enough credit for
1) committing to a lifetime of "vegetarianism,"
2) always putting Bella's welfare before his own, and
3) overcoming his "frozen" state -- growing emotionally, even though vampires don't usually change.
I think Edward should get just as much credit for his commitment to vegetarianism as the other Cullens. I would say that he lacked the "support group", so to say, that the others had because he only had Carlisle. But, even as Edward tells it, he could hear how sincere Carlisle was with his extra ability, and that's why he stuck to it before he rebelled. He had that extra knowledge that it was compassion, not some form of torture or pointless "fasting" on Carlisle's part.

I give Edward credit for his wholehearted devotion to Bella. I think to throw yourself so deeply into someone else's life is a difficult thing. Unfortunately, I think he takes it a little too far, torturing himself about every thing that goes wrong in Bella's life, blaming himself for not getting there fast enough to help or for having been the supposed cause to begin with. No one's perfect, I know, which is why I do give him extreme credit for growing.

He gets past tormenting himself and learns to be happy with her, which is best all around, because no one can live for very long with someone who is constantly blaming themselves, no matter how much devotion they're showing. I honestly think that Edward was getting a bit influenced by having to be around high schoolers all the time. I love his commentary in MS, but if you've read it, you have to admit he doesn't sound like he's a hundred years old. He can sound very much like a moody teenager. I think being around Bella, having to really interact with a human for the first time since his own humanity, really made him comes to grips with what he is. Sure, he had to deal with that in the sense of coping with his thirst, and how much of a monster that makes him. But it's more of an abstract idea when you're setting yourself apart from people and living and interacting solely with other vampires. When he threw himself into a relationship with Bella, he was constantly reminded of the differences between them. He had to sort out his human emotions and reactions that were coming to the surface from the vampire ones that were screaming to get out. And he did a wonderful job.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by una »

As someone who hasn't read MS (except for the first chapter excerpt that was originally posted on SM's site), I remember thinking when I first read Tw, that Edward seemed a bit moody. In some ways, Edward is right, the veggie vamps have more of a dual nature, their is the side that humanity sees, the part of them they try to preserve by not hunting humans, then there is the other part, the true vampire part (complete with instincts and extra abilities). Do you feel that Edward was "frozen" or was more cold to others (especially humans) because he lacked a mate? The other Cullens had their mates to help anchor them and give them other, outlets, for battling the instincts of the "darker" nature.

Dating was very different for men and women from Edward's time period. Plus with the voices of all those teenagers in his head, his more gentlemanly manner could have been mistaken for being aloof and arrogant (not to mention already knowing what people were thinking when they approached him). It was odd to see Edward going from being cold and stand-offish to being the, for lack of better imagery, the giggly, puppy love, boy with Bella. I wonder how much of that was the influence of the vampire side finding it's mate and his human side finally experiencing love?
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl »

Una~ First, kudos to you for your resistance where MS is concerned. I absolutely could not, once SM posted the entire draft on her site, resist the idea of having just a little deeper insight into Edward's mind.

I think they were part and parcel of each other, really. Edward, IMO, truly believed he did not deserve the kind of happiness the others had with their mates. I always found that odd, particularly given what he knows about Jasper's history. But that's something I will get to in a second. I think Edward sort put himself in that frozen state because he didn't feel he should be around others. He truly believed he was a monster. I think he saw being around humans as a necessary evil to maintain the illusion, and he was cold to them because he was, in a way, protecting them. There's examples of it all through MS, especially. But, even throughout the Saga, we see it. I also think, he saw it as a bit of penance for his rebelious days.

As for Edward's feeling about deserving happiness, as I said, I find particularly odd that he believes Jasper has earned his happiness with Alice, but he has not earned happiness with anyone. The only reasoning I can find when thinking about it is that Edward chose to rebel, where he sees that, anytime Jasper is tempted, it is pure instinct. So, I think he was able to rationalize that, because he made the choice after living as a vegetarian, he did not deserve the happiness.

As to Edward's giddiness about accepting Bella and their relationship, again I think they are one and the same. We are told over and over that vampires experience all things more intensely than humans. So, yes, he is absolutely experiencing the joy and elation of first love. But, he is experiencing it as a vampire, which heightens everything.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by swedishskinjer »

In the Twilight movie, did anyone see the possible reference to Midnight Sun? According to Robert Pattinson, Stephenie let him read some of the chapters from Edward's perspective to receive a greater understanding of his character. After Jessica says "apparently, no one here is good enough for him" in the beginning cafeteria scene, Edward smiles as he walks to the table (it cuts to him smiling immediately after Jessica says this). I wonder if that's a subtle hint that they put in about Edward knowing Jessica's thoughts concerning him. He seems to mention this once or twice in MS.

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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl »

swedishskinjer wrote:In the Twilight movie, did anyone see the possible reference to Midnight Sun? According to Robert Pattinson, Stephenie let him read some of the chapters from Edward's perspective to receive a greater understanding of his character. After Jessica says "apparently, no one here is good enough for him" in the beginning cafeteria scene, Edward smiles as he walks to the table (it cuts to him smiling immediately after Jessica says this). I wonder if that's a subtle hint that they put in about Edward knowing Jessica's thoughts concerning him. He seems to mention this once or twice in MS.
I think there are many subtle references to MS, particularly in the first maybe 30 minutes of the film. It's pretty clear that Rob put a lot of effort into truly capturing Edward's character. I did not read MS until after the film was released, and I saw it again after I had read MS. It just made Rob's performance as Edward to me that much more impressive. I think he brings so many of Edward's characteristics to the screen so well, but subtly.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Esme echo »

una wrote:
Esme echo wrote:I don't think Edward is given enough credit for
1) committing to a lifetime of "vegetarianism,"
2) always putting Bella's welfare before his own, and
3) overcoming his "frozen" state -- growing emotionally, even though vampires don't usually change.
I think in some ways, it is more than Bella's welfare that Edward considers, it is almost as if he places himself second to any need, want or desire she could or might have. Especially when considering he wanted to make sure she didn't miss out on any "human" memories, like Prom.

What do you mean by "frozen" state, Esme echo? Would you mind elaborating?
* * * * POSSIBLE MIDNIGHT SUN SPOILER * * * *

I've been trying to remember the exact reference for you, una, but I haven't had time to go looking, sorry. I remember at one point Edward explained to Bella that when a human is transformed into a vampire, they are frozen in the state they are in for eternity. Physically, AND emotionally. Edward was 17 when he was transformed. Eternity is a long time to deal with 17-year-old emotions! Edward also told Bella that when change comes, it's permanent. (Or, maybe that's just what he was thinking about the first time he watched Bella sleep?)

I was trying to give Edward credit for overcoming his teenage impulses and habits, growing beyond them into a respectful and responsible husband and father. It could not have been an easy transformation for a teenage vampire.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by swedishskinjer »

Jazz Girl wrote:
swedishskinjer wrote:In the Twilight movie, did anyone see the possible reference to Midnight Sun? According to Robert Pattinson, Stephenie let him read some of the chapters from Edward's perspective to receive a greater understanding of his character. After Jessica says "apparently, no one here is good enough for him" in the beginning cafeteria scene, Edward smiles as he walks to the table (it cuts to him smiling immediately after Jessica says this). I wonder if that's a subtle hint that they put in about Edward knowing Jessica's thoughts concerning him. He seems to mention this once or twice in MS.
I think there are many subtle references to MS, particularly in the first maybe 30 minutes of the film. It's pretty clear that Rob put a lot of effort into truly capturing Edward's character. I did not read MS until after the film was released, and I saw it again after I had read MS. It just made Rob's performance as Edward to me that much more impressive. I think he brings so many of Edward's characteristics to the screen so well, but subtly.
Agreed. I know that some fans questioned Rob's performance, but I loved his portrayal of Edward. He was able to capture so many emotions, from the slightly creepy, distant student in the beginning to the gentle, caring lover at the end. During some of the scenes in Twilight, he looked particularly beautiful (when Laurent warns them about James, his face when he turns around after Bella asks him to not leave her room, etc).

Rob also said that they based his look partly on James Dean.

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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl »

Esme Echo~ I absolutely give Edward credit for overcoming his teenaged state. But, at the same time, as Una pointed out, being 17 in 1918 and being 17 in 2009 are two very very different things. In 1918, it was common for a young man to already be a husband, if not also a father, at 17. I think that is one reason why Edward didn't think twice about wanting, needing, Bella to marry him. It's like he said... he is that boy. So, being frozen in that state would be different from turning a 17 year old today.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by una »

I also can't help but think of the conflictions/confusions that Edward must suffer, hearing what average seventeen year-olds in our culture are thinking and doing (or remembering) compared to how he was raised and what he was taught. Not to mention being surrounded at home by happily mated couples. The conflicts within him while he thinks of himself of as monster and yet, I can't help but think he yearns for what each of his family members have...whether he deserves it or not. He must have/had moments where he WISHED he was mated and just resigned himself to being the loner.
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