Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by nissanmama »

Just tip toeing in to say...

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by smitten_by_twilight »

Ok, Gutterites, I have a burning question that has been building up. I'll try to keep it PG-13 ;)

Do vampires have a latency period? You know, the lull between ... times?

Stephenie does not seem to address this head-on in the books ("we had no more human needs" doesn't address vampiric needs) and I don't recall it coming up in interviews. But I've always been a little curious, and I think my curiousity has been recently stoked by reading VirginiaMay and especially sillybella's fanfics. :swoon: Honestly, the science behind vampiric ... hmm ... PG-13 terms for R concepts ... think synonym for "buildings" ... just doesn't work out. In that state all the time? Changing similar to humans, and if so, how, since it's blood flow that creates that change in humans? It seems to be the kind of thing where an edict has to come down from the Power in the Twilight world. If this was discussed on the old Gutter threads, I'd be happy to be pointed in the right direction.
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by corona »

Ooooh, that's a hard one.

Seriously, latency is not necessarily an issue depending on how physically fit, and young, the subject is, even if they are human (although humans obviously have limits). A lot of it is mental, and the intensity of the desire is critical. Blood flow would be replaced by venom flow.

You could try comparing 17 year-old Edward to 40 year-old Aro, but the physical aspects are no longer in play. Both of them could sustain the popsicle of death for as long as they desired. Mentally, though, I think Edward would simply want to indulge for longer periods of time. He did pull off an all-nighter the first night in the cottage, interrupted only by needing to see Renesmee the next morning. There was nothing in that chapter that suggested him and Bella needed breaks between the action.

So, yeah, reason #38 why SM called Edward the "ideal man".
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by VirginiaMay »

smitten_by_twilight wrote:Ok, Gutterites, I have a burning question that has been building up. I'll try to keep it PG-13 ;)

Do vampires have a latency period? You know, the lull between ... times?

Stephenie does not seem to address this head-on in the books ("we had no more human needs" doesn't address vampiric a little curious, and I think my curiousity has been recently stoked by reading VirginiaMay and especially sillybella's fanfics. :swoon:
OMG... :lol: I nearly spit out my Diet Dr. Pepper!!!

First of all Ms Smitten, thank you for the compliment. I'm blushing.

Second, I know somewhere I read that this was a question posed to Stephenie early on, and as Corona stated, the principle behind how it's even possible for a Twi-vamp to um... achieve a popsicle stick of death (*giggles uncontrollably*) is that venom has replaced their blood & virtually all their other bodily fluids. Apparently some sort of blood/venom flow still takes place as the blood they consume is what keeps them strong & agile, which implies that the tissues somehow gain access to it and use it as fuel. As for the mysteries of what happens beyond that, I believe some of it was discussed in The Science of Twilight thread a while back. ??? But to address the latency period question directly, I can tell you that the most popular theory (in the fanfiction world at least) seems to point to there being one, just that it's insanely short because vampires are capable of doing everything fast. ;-) So... there you go. You decide.

-Ginnie

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by corona »

VirginiaMay wrote:I can tell you that the most popular theory (in the fanfiction world at least) seems to point to there being one, just that it's insanely short because vampires are capable of doing everything fast. ;-) So... there you go. You decide.

-Ginnie
Actually, I think SM was going to answer that question directly in the original sequel "Forever Don", but she decided to keep everything in the YA world. What a shame.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by VirginiaMay »

corona wrote:
VirginiaMay wrote:I can tell you that the most popular theory (in the fanfiction world at least) seems to point to there being one, just that it's insanely short because vampires are capable of doing everything fast. ;-) So... there you go. You decide.

-Ginnie
Actually, I think SM was going to answer that question directly in the original sequel "Forever Don", but she decided to keep everything in the YA world. What a shame.

I can imagine SM must have had Bella ask lots of questions in her early drafts of Forever Dawn. I mean, the whole baby thing was a part of it from the beginning, and that really threw all the characters for a loop, so they must have discussed everything involved with how Renesmee's conception was even possible, right?? That's just another reason why I wish, on one hand, that Little Brown hadn't pushed SM to develop their senior year of high school more & add New Moon & Eclispe. Perhaps then the Breaking Dawn story never would have become so Jacob-centric and we would have gotten some more of those conversations amongst the Cullens. Maybe?? Then again, maybe not.

I did want to add this: I think that when Bella says, "I was always going to want more. And the day was never going to end. So, in such a situation, how did we ever stop?" It leads us to believe that it would be highly possible for them to actually never stop. So, in PG-13 terms, they would be like instant experts in tantric baking. ;-)

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by smitten_by_twilight »

Oh, so glad I posted my little query!
corona wrote:Ooooh, that's a hard one.
LOL with snorting and tears leaking out of my eyes.
corona wrote:He did pull off an all-nighter the first night in the cottage, interrupted only by needing to see Renesmee the next morning. There was nothing in that chapter that suggested him and Bella needed breaks between the action.
See, I kind of thought those conversational interludes might have been lulls in main action. But you're right, the book doesn't really suggest that there were needed lulls ... maybe just pauses for different stimuli.
VirginiaMay wrote:a popsicle stick of death (*giggles uncontrollably*)
I know, huh. The first time I read someone asking if baking with Edward would compare (I'm paraphrasing here) to a frozen popsicle I was dreadfully offended by the lack of romance ... and after several months conceded, yes, a really deep-frozen popsicle, but apparently Bella could not care less. (And I don't blame her.)
VirginiaMay wrote:But to address the latency period question directly, I can tell you that the most popular theory (in the fanfiction world at least) seems to point to there being one, just that it's insanely short because vampires are capable of doing everything fast.
At the moment I think this is a nice theory. Here's why: Renesmee would not be around if a small event commonly triggering the beginning of a latency period had not happened. (You know what I'm talking about.) Maybe it doesn't in vampires ... but that would be kind of wierd, given the increased ... umm ... venom flow immediately preceeding said small event. Perhaps latency is so brief that there is no particular reason, particularly in our newlyweds, to ... umm ... detach from each other.
corona wrote:"Forever Don"
Was that a typo or a Freudian slip? Cause I like it as a slip. That could be a really raunchy fanfic title. So many giggles tonight. Sorry, I don't usually speak with so many umms and don't find the topic unusually embarrassing ... but I was working for euphemisms as I don't think even clinical terms could keep this discussion PG-13.
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by Alphie »

Oh lordy. Where to start?

First of all, I have to tell you my face turned bright red as I typed in the search through documents on my computer for a specific word. You know, the word dealing with "MEN on the SEA." Yeah. I rolled my eyes and typed it in and came up with seven documents all containing that word and all with Twilight related labels. I should add that NONE of those seven documents were fan fiction. Now, that being said, we shall move on...

When we worked on the guide we pointedly asked Stephenie for the details that you are looking for. She wanted to keep the guide at a reading level that would be appropriate for her younger readers, which I respect, and so she didn't answer the question in full. What we got is what's in the guide. And I know that doesn't help much!

So I speak now from my own impression having been thinking about such topics for over five years now - because seriously, everyone who read these books and fell in love with Edward has been thinking about this. That's one of the reasons why women are thinking about him right?

First we have to consider why there is a latency period at all in humans before we can determine if there would be one with Vampires. With humans, there are lots of factors. We need to catch our breath. We get tired from the exercise. Maybe we get hungry. Maybe we try something that ends up pulling a muscle and hurting. Lots and lots of general reasons why we need to rest in between. But the main reason is that men just... can't... "recover"... at least they can't that quickly, contrary to whatever romance novel you've read!

Now consider the vamps in the Twilight Saga. They don't need to breathe with the same frequency so they could go without breath for a long time. They wouldn't be panting when they are finished. They don't get tired so they wouldn't need to rest in between. They wouldn't really hurt each other in a way that they couldn't be intimate - like a pulled muscle or a bad back. Male vampires do have "genetic material" in the fluid that allows them to make love. (How's that for trying to stay PG-13! I've never ever seen Stephenie use the word about "MEN on the SEA" in anything EVER. But she has said "genetic material" and even... um... emissions. Shudder.) But it's never been determined how quickly that "material" can be... redistributed. (How red is my face right now? UGH!)

I think the real basis of the latency period is the need to feed. I have always had my own idea - TOTALLY UNCONFIRMED - that love making is easier for the male vampire after they have fed simply because they have more blood in their system. (Do I really need to explain why more blood would help? I didn't think so!) Thus if they haven't fed well, then it's my OPINION (again totally unconfirmed) that they wouldn't last long with intimacy.

My shoulders are knotted up for worry over looking at notes from Stephenie and reading old documents and trying to word this so that I don't offend anyone! I hope this helps!
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by smitten_by_twilight »

Alphie, so excited to see you in a posting mode!

I'm trying to understand past all of our euphemisms. Are you saying that your impression is that vampires need not stop at all - even post-emission *insert involuntary teenage giggle here* - except to feed, or that feeding impacts the length of the latency period? Or something else I'm not catching? And when I say latency I'm specifically thinking of that male need to "recover," as you say.

"Material redistributed?" What? Restocking tiny genetic material in ... storage containers? Moving said material from storage along the ... distribution ... channel? (Superman and Kleenex reference?) Huh?

God help me, I've been married more than 15 years and have 4 kids. WHY does this make me blush and giggle?
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by corona »

smitten_by_twilight wrote:
corona wrote:"Forever Don"
Was that a typo or a Freudian slip? Cause I like it as a slip. That could be a really raunchy fanfic title. So many giggles tonight. Sorry, I don't usually speak with so many umms and don't find the topic unusually embarrassing ... but I was working for euphemisms as I don't think even clinical terms could keep this discussion PG-13.
Yes, "Forever Don" introduced a new male vampire into the saga with a very unusual and quite popular talent, who eventually escapes from the clutches of the Denali clan. SM then decided to tell the story from his mate's viewpoint, named Dawn in a moment of inspiration, who surprisingly had the same talent (title was changed to "Forever Dawn"). Her talent was not as powerful, though, and the story was retitled once more to "Breaking Dawn". SM wasn't happy with the way the story changed, though, so she eventually decided to return to Bella, although the story title was kept. Some elements of the original story were retained, such as the metallic screeching noises and being able to reattach parts using vampire saliva. It's all true, trust me, no matter what anyone else says.
Alphie wrote:I've never ever seen Stephenie use the word about "MEN on the SEA" in anything EVER.
Try http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/bd_faq.html, she does use a variation on the word, followed by "fluids".

Alphie wrote:I think the real basis of the latency period is the need to feed. I have always had my own idea - TOTALLY UNCONFIRMED - that love making is easier for the male vampire after they have fed simply because they have more blood in their system. (Do I really need to explain why more blood would help? I didn't think so!) Thus if they haven't fed well, then it's my OPINION (again totally unconfirmed) that they wouldn't last long with intimacy.
Snort! I was going to make some more snarky comments concerning Edward's first meeting with Bella. Since eye coloration depends on the amount of blood in the system, what happens when...? No wonder his eyes were black! This was a first for him. Notice how quickly he leaves at the ring of the bell. I don't think SM is giving us the full story.

And female vampires have to hunt too, or else you end up like Dawn.
"It will take an amazing amount of control,” she mused. “More even than Carlisle has. He may be just strong enough…the only thing he’s not strong enough to do is stay away from her. That’s a lost cause.”

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