Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

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fanMNM
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals Annex **Eclipse Spoilers**

Post by fanMNM » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:40 pm

I feel like the scene at the end of the movie sort of blurred the meaning of the movie a bit. I get that the filmmakers were trying to show that Bella was sort of meant to be a vampire because of her struggle at simply being human...but I feel like the connection, the devotion, between Edward and Bella is kinda thrown out in that scene. It almost sounds like Bella is saying that becoming a vampire is what she is meant to do, and that Edward is just a bonus in the whole deal. I never got that from the books...it was always Bella's choice to change because she loved Edward so much. (Anyone else see that, or am I nuts?) :?


I'm still bothered by the fact that Edward doesn't appear to be a very good fighter in any of the movies. I kind of shrugged it off in New Moon because he was fighting the Volturi (the strongest fighters in the vampire world) but then he struggled with Victoria and Riley! Edward was better than that, especially with the mind-reading on his side. And it diminshed the connection Seth and Edward form by working together to defeat Victoria and Riley.

There's really so much more to analyze but I'll stop there for now :)
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals Annex **Eclipse Spoilers**

Post by December » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:48 pm

fanNMN wrote:I feel like the scene at the end of the movie sort of blurred the meaning of the movie a bit. I get that the filmmakers were trying to show that Bella was sort of meant to be a vampire because of her struggle at simply being human...but I feel like the connection, the devotion, between Edward and Bella is kinda thrown out in that scene. It almost sounds like Bella is saying that becoming a vampire is what she is meant to do, and that Edward is just a bonus in the whole deal. I never got that from the books...it was always Bella's choice to change because she loved Edward so much. (Anyone else see that, or am I nuts?) :?

No, you are not nuts. I couldn't agree with you more. This isn't a lifestyle choice -- it's a sacrifice made for love.

That is the splendour of the love story Stephenie has been telling for the past three books, and the measure of how profoundly Edward and Bella love each other: that she would give EVERYTHING up for him, and consider it well lost. It's not a very feminist message, which is presumably why the moviemakers have soft-pedalled it, but I think it's indisputably there. More: I think it's what makes this love story so breathtakingly powerful: THAT'S how much she loves him.

Granted, we've seen from the start how tenuous Bella's foothold in her ordinary life is: how frail the threads are which hold her to her human existence. But for me, that's just a kind-hearted author doing what she can to blunt the edge of the appalling sacrifice she's requiring her heroine to make (and think how much more terrible Bella's choice would seem if she had anything like a normal life, rich in friends, home and family).

But to construe this as a rationale for Bella's choice -- to reconstruct the Twilight Saga as a narrative of the misfit who eventually finds fulfillment among her own kind -- is to turn the story on its head. If Twilight wasn't a story about the obliterating power of love and the sacrifices people would unhesitatingly make for it...well, it's time I picked up my bucket and spade and went home. With the words of Eclipse's dedication ringing in my ears.

And it did not run:

"To my children, Gabe, Seth, and Eli, for letting me experience the kind of love that people freely make a lifestyle choice for."
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals Annex **Eclipse Spoilers**

Post by Openhome » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:31 pm

fanMNM wrote:I feel like the scene at the end of the movie sort of blurred the meaning of the movie a bit. I get that the filmmakers were trying to show that Bella was sort of meant to be a vampire because of her struggle at simply being human...but I feel like the connection, the devotion, between Edward and Bella is kinda thrown out in that scene. It almost sounds like Bella is saying that becoming a vampire is what she is meant to do, and that Edward is just a bonus in the whole deal. I never got that from the books...it was always Bella's choice to change because she loved Edward so much. (Anyone else see that, or am I nuts?) :?


I'm still bothered by the fact that Edward doesn't appear to be a very good fighter in any of the movies. I kind of shrugged it off in New Moon because he was fighting the Volturi (the strongest fighters in the vampire world) but then he struggled with Victoria and Riley! Edward was better than that, especially with the mind-reading on his side. And it diminshed the connection Seth and Edward form by working together to defeat Victoria and Riley.
NOPE YOU NAILED IT!! Thanks so very much for saying that!

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals Annex **Eclipse Spoilers**

Post by cullengirl » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:40 pm

fanMNM wrote:I feel like the scene at the end of the movie sort of blurred the meaning of the movie a bit. I get that the filmmakers were trying to show that Bella was sort of meant to be a vampire because of her struggle at simply being human...but I feel like the connection, the devotion, between Edward and Bella is kinda thrown out in that scene. It almost sounds like Bella is saying that becoming a vampire is what she is meant to do, and that Edward is just a bonus in the whole deal. I never got that from the books...it was always Bella's choice to change because she loved Edward so much. (Anyone else see that, or am I nuts?) :?
You're not nuts. The ending is one of the many things that I did not like about the movie (full review coming soon as soon as I see it *coughforcedtocough* the second time). I really felt that the director and screenwriter didn't understand the concept of choice in the movie at all. They tried to bring up the relationship triangle, which was neither here nor there, as well as the change. Although I love her line at the end of the movie, I think it was the screenplay writers last chance to say something about choice. Yes, ultimately it is Bella's choice to decide whether or not she wants to change, but she does change and sacrifice herself for love.
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals Annex **Eclipse Spoilers**

Post by fanMNM » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:03 am

Thanks for backing me up guys! :) I was reading the thread about favorite scenes in the Eclipse movie, and someone over there explained the ending scene in a more positive light...I liked their explanation, however, I still feel like we shouldn't have to dig that deep to find redemption in the scene. Bella's choice was always about her love for Edward. That shone through on every page for me. The fact that I had to really open my mind to find it in the movie means the filmmakers lost the message somewhere along the way...

How did you all feel about Rose's backstory?
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by fanMNM » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:05 am

QOTD: What was your favorite book you had to read in school?
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by Jazz Girl » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:35 am

fanMNM wrote:QOTD: What was your favorite book you had to read in school?
The Scarlet Letter or maybe Where the Red Fern Grows. Yep, just a little different. But, I can't decide.
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by missp » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:40 pm

My favorite book that I had to read in school was assigned to me in an undergraduate course in college. It was Jacob Have I Lovedby Katherine Patterson. I love her books. I have a classroom set of most of her books that I used to use in lit circles until we got our new reading program. I miss using them in my curriculum.

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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals : Full Moon Baking

Post by Ouisa » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:54 pm

I adore Jacob have I loved.
And hey look....I still love Jacob.

However I didn't have to read that for school....I mostly hated the books I had to read for school and blew through them in a day. They started giving me special topics books and extra work from that I got to read The Chosen and My Name is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok. I think Asher Lev would probably be my favorite assigned book from school days.

Hi gutter.
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Re: Gutter Guys & Gals Annex **Eclipse Spoilers**

Post by Ouisa » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:04 pm

First, Did the message of the movie match the book for you?

NO! Big time no.
Eclipse is all about the loss of humanity that Bella was supposed to experience when being turned. The biggest and best example of this would be (for me...) The Great Dog Snog (there were other moments but one can get why I fixate on this one.)

The Great Dog Snog was done completely wrong. Yes it was a nice kiss...there even was a tiny bit of hair pulling but what makes that kiss amazing, what makes that kiss absolutely totally belong in the series is the accompanying vision. Without that vision, there is every reason for the Edward girls to get upset, but it's that vision those two adorable curly headed babies and the life that is contained in that kiss, that choice that we as readers and (on my part reluctant) movie goers need. We need to get exactly why she should choose Jake and exactly what the price of Bella's choice to stay with Edward should cost her. It's the whole point of Eclipse.... of Rose's stories (more curly headed babies) and to some extent Bree's. In that moment...in that vision Bella finally gets what Rose and Edward and Jake are trying to tell her....and she chooses anyway. Snap goes the last threads on that pretty red ribbon.....

(Granted the whole horrible price thing is negated by Breaking Dawn but hey I'm one of those people who chooses to ignore that story.)
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