Jacob Black

[Mara Jade Cullen]

I re-read Eclispe and was annoyed with Jacob and his antics, but more so with Bella and hers.
Then I re-read Breaking Dawn and really got to like Jacob's character again. He has so much growth.

Comparing Jacob and Edward is so hard. I can't really say they are apples and oranges. They are more different than that even. But I do like how the two come to appreciate each other and I dare say even love each other by the end of the book (Edward calls Jacob "son").

Jacob is a 16/17 year-old boy from our modern world. Edward is a 17 year-old man with a century of experience. Neither have experience in love.

Saying that Jacob would never have left Bella isn't fair. He didn't have the same conditions that Edward did. Being with Jacob wouldn't have been that much different or more difficult/dangerous than human boys. The shapeshifters exist to protect by nature. Edward's situation is more complex. His very presence in her life makes life more dangerous for her from numerous perspectives. So yes. He left her. But at great personal pain and only with the hope that it would make her safe. Being with Jacob wouldn't necessitate dying. But it would with Edward. So its not fair to say that Jacob loves her more because he couldn't leave her.

At the same time, its not fair to say that Edward loves her more because he was going to give his life for her and Jacob wouldn't. I definitely think that Jacob would give his life in her defense. And he had risked it on numerous occasions. But he's different in temperment than Edward. Not as melodramatic. He doesn't have the overreaction as a basic part of his personality as Edward does. So I wouldn't expect him to make a grand gesture of suicide for her.

But I will say that I do think that Edward loves her more. And it is because the same thing that someone said above. Edward basically did the vampire's version of imprinting upon Bella. They were meant for each other. They were destined for each other. Her mental shield, her scent, and her difference in thought patterns from other humans all were things that made her stand out and made Edward take notice. And in the end the mental shield was what saved her entire family.
I'm not knocking Jacob here. But the reason that he didn't imprint upon Bella (despite his efforts to force himself to do so) is because he was not destined for her. She wasn't designer for him--she was close, of course. But Jacob was also destined for more than simple human companionship--for someone even more special than Bella. Personally, I'm happy for him.

[Mrs.Edward_Cullen<3]

I re-read Eclispe and was annoyed with Jacob and his antics, but more so with Bella and hers.
Then I re-read Breaking Dawn and really got to like Jacob's character again. He has so much growth.

Comparing Jacob and Edward is so hard. I can't really say they are apples and oranges. They are more different than that even. But I do like how the two come to appreciate each other and I dare say even love each other by the end of the book (Edward calls Jacob "son").

Jacob is a 16/17 year-old boy from our modern world. Edward is a 17 year-old man with a century of experience. Neither have experience in love.

Saying that Jacob would never have left Bella isn't fair. He didn't have the same conditions that Edward did. Being with Jacob wouldn't have been that much different or more difficult/dangerous than human boys. The shapeshifters exist to protect by nature. Edward's situation is more complex. His very presence in her life makes life more dangerous for her from numerous perspectives. So yes. He left her. But at great personal pain and only with the hope that it would make her safe. Being with Jacob wouldn't necessitate dying. But it would with Edward. So its not fair to say that Jacob loves her more because he couldn't leave her.

At the same time, its not fair to say that Edward loves her more because he was going to give his life for her and Jacob wouldn't. I definitely think that Jacob would give his life in her defense. And he had risked it on numerous occasions. But he's different in temperment than Edward. Not as melodramatic. He doesn't have the overreaction as a basic part of his personality as Edward does. So I wouldn't expect him to make a grand gesture of suicide for her.

But I will say that I do think that Edward loves her more. And it is because the same thing that someone said above. Edward basically did the vampire's version of imprinting upon Bella. They were meant for each other. They were destined for each other. Her mental shield, her scent, and her difference in thought patterns from other humans all were things that made her stand out and made Edward take notice. And in the end the mental shield was what saved her entire family.
I'm not knocking Jacob here. But the reason that he didn't imprint upon Bella (despite his efforts to force himself to do so) is because he was not destined for her. She wasn't designer for him--she was close, of course. But Jacob was also destined for more than simple human companionship--for someone even more special than Bella. Personally, I'm happy for him.

Mara Jade you are a genius. I love your words.

[spicey16]

I still can`t stand his character in New Moon, and Eclipse is bearable, but IMO, he comes off more mature towards vampires in Breaking Dawn. Not considering Twilight in this because he`s barely there and completely ignorant to his true history.

Jacob hated the vampires, yes. However, Edward hated the werewolves. How can you only put Jacob down then? Both Edward and Jacob could have handled the situation better. They both formed opinions without getting to know each other. Its hypocritcal to only subjectify one of them.

Annnd, Jacob was a wonderful person in New Moon..Full of understanding and compassion. I think he handled events better than Edward had. And although Jacob made mistakes, his were more justifiable than Edwards (IMO).

i dont think she was putting him down i think she was complimenting him but either way i think it was very well put RebeccaCullen

[Moonlit Sunlight]

I must admit, I HATED Jake with vengence when I first read about him in NM, I was like tossing my book against the wall every five minutes. That was all before I decided that both of the leading males weren't for me anyway But I did grow to like Jake, from Eclipse onwards he seemed like a very caring person, who despite being passed up by the girl of his dreams, still wanted her to be happy and safe, I for one wouldn't do that for someone if they broke my heart, so it was a very loving thing for him to do . . . especially when Bella was being so goddamn annoying. I didn't understand why Edward and Jake didn't just desert her with all her nonsense . . . I'm not a Bella lover
Anyway, I am really happy Jake got his happy ending, that he got his chance to be loved by someone and love them right back, properly. At first the whole Nessie thing was creepy towards me, but now I think it's fair, if Bella gets everything she wanted why shouldn't he?

I was like that to when i read NM i hated Jacob with a Passion I thought he should just die and leave bella and Edward alone. but then after a while Jacob sort of started to grow on me. And i now love him and am really happy he got a happy ending . and yeah i also wonderd why Edward and Jacob didn't go somewhere else and leave Bella... I am also not a Bella lover..... but i love jacob now and am really happy that he got his happy ending.... since he really deserved it.

[RebeccaCullen]

I still can`t stand his character in New Moon, and Eclipse is bearable, but IMO, he comes off more mature towards vampires in Breaking Dawn. Not considering Twilight in this because he`s barely there and completely ignorant to his true history.

Jacob hated the vampires, yes. However, Edward hated the werewolves. How can you only put Jacob down then? Both Edward and Jacob could have handled the situation better. They both formed opinions without getting to know each other. Its hypocritcal to only subjectify one of them.

Annnd, Jacob was a wonderful person in New Moon..Full of understanding and compassion. I think he handled events better than Edward had. And although Jacob made mistakes, his were more justifiable than Edwards (IMO).

Well, seeing as this is a Jacob thread, I figured it was more appropriate to make my comment about how I thought Jake matured in regards to vampires here and leave my opinion of Edward out of it.

When I wrote this I was not thinking in terms of how Edward felt about Jake and the wolves because I didn`t consider it important to what I had to say. Yes, both should have taken the time to get to know each other, which, IMO, they did in Jake`s book in Breaking Dawn. Both of them grew up in that book in regards to each other.

But at the same time, Edward could read minds and knew what they Jake was thinking. For the most part, whenever they were around each other, Jake had either thoughts about Bella or about how evil the vampires were. When Sam wanted to hurt Bella and the Cullen`s Jake saw them for the innocent beings they were and went to protect them. By being around them, IMO, Jake learned more about the Cullens and how they all vampires couldn`t be as evil as the tribe thought. Just like Edward learned that bring a wolf couldn`t be all that it was.

I hated Edward being gone in New Moon, and I do believe that some of that hate transferred to Jake and his budding friendship with Bella. Every time I`ve reread the book I`d read maybe a third of it with Jake then skip off to where Bella jumps and Jake takes her to his place and pick up there. He is a caring person in New Moon, and is a good friend to Bella. He gets that she`s in pain, and needs to heal. He gets that Charlie wants her happy, so he would do whatever he could to help her and I get that, but as I said a little earlier in this post, I do think some of my hate from Edward being gone transferred to the budding friendship between Bella and Jake.

[BlackRainWillFall]

The only reason Edward left was because he wanted Bella to be safe. Jake wants to stay at her side because he doesn't have much of an oppurtunity..It hurt Edward as well to leave her. He was on the verge of coming back. But then Bella threw herself off a cliff and then he wanted to die. He knew he couldn't exist in a world where she wasn't alive. Edward almost killed himself for the girl he loved with all his power and eternity. He still loved Bella when he left. Did Jacob kill himself for Bella? No he lied about it so they could have just 1 passionate kiss. I'm not saying Jacob is bad and Edward is perfect...they both made huge mistakes..But I don't know if Jacob would sacrifice himself for Bella.

So true love can be defined by someone who is willing to commit suicide if their other half was lost to them? I do not find that romantic in the least or proof of a greater love; I find it as weak and senseless. And did you simply skip the parts that were Jacob-centric? Even a Jacob hater would admit that Jacob would give his life to protect Bella, just as easily as Edward would.

Sure, Jacob lied; but haven't you ever been so reckless that even thinking things through had meant nothing to you in that moment? Even if it meant you were desperate and would hurt someone else? I know I have. It's only human to feel such things... If anything, I think Edward would have done something similar if the tables were turned, and he was the 'other guy' grabbing at straws to have one memory of Bella as something more (IF, I said). I still do not believe that Edward loves Bella more than Jacob; I think they both love her somewhat equally, but in different ways and for different reasons.

To the poster who played out the "Destiny" card: Well that was just a stab in the neck, wasn't it? Perhaps you have a point. 'Fate' and 'destiny' is such a... nuisance. Thank the spirits that I don't believe in those kinds of masogynistic things.

Thank you for a jolly good... er... debate? Happy New Year to all.

[Nerd]

Hey, hey. Let's remember not to make this a debate about which one of our boys is better. They each showed their love in different ways.

[holdingoutforjacob]

let me get something straight here. Romeo and Juliet is the biggest, most celebrated CROCK in history.

suicide is never selfless and it is NEVER a demonstration of love. it is just about the meanest thing you can do to the people around you. it's selfish and melodramatic.

Edward was too obsessed with his own feelings of love for Bella to think about anything or anyone else. this happens repeatedly throughout the books. Eclipse is a prime example of it. He is too obsessed with HIS fear for Bella and HIS discomfort to consider what SHE wants.

Jacob, on the other hand, was obsessed with keeping her alive. so yes, he lied. but can't you see how desperate he was? he was about to go off into a situation where he knew he could actually die, and this would be his one last chance to make her see that she was in love with him. so yes, he lied. but he did it for her. edward tried to kill himself for him.

[Wingtear]

Happy New Year 2009 girls (and boys, if we have any)

OMJB, you've been talking a lot...
I haven't had time to read since before x-mas, and now I don't either... I'm in New York on my honeymoon, and sneaking in for some Lex time just like any addict who needs their drug...

It's good to see that you keep our favorite hot guys back though! There's nothing like some furry heat!
I promise to come back and talk when I get home again, that'll be around monday I think...
I'm seeing Twilight today, with my very own Jacob (they are so alike it scares me, honestly...) and I hope he likes it. The worst part is, he'll probably approve of the choice of tie on Jacob in the end... *shiver*

[Amethyst1]

Holdingoutforjacob - normally I would agree - I am not a fan of suicide and I am against it, logically speaking of coarse.

However, when displayed in books in a fictionous matter, I have a different view on it. I think it has to be the most way to demonstrate true love that is not even humanly possible in such an irrational behaviour. It’s classic.
Edward going to italy accentuates how much he truly loves her. His sempiternal love for her completely deprecates everything else in his life. He can not exist in a world where she isn’t alive.

I think it’s sweet too when your true love dies and you struggle with life, but humans are so inconsistent. It’s not sweet when you find someone else and completely antiquate your previous love. Sure, you’re happy now…you’re making your family happy but that does not demonstrate to me in any way possible “true love”.

Anyhow. I find it appropriate of Edward. And if his family (the cullens) love him enough, they should understand how he feels. Because I am sure if Alice died, Jasper would go crazy and he would do the same thing as well as with the other couples.

I agree though. Suicide, realistically speaking is never selfless. With Edward, in my mind, it’s both selfish and selfless. And his action is neither right or wrong, just both. To me, it’s one of those things that are so appropriate and so right but wrong at the same time. It’s also one of those things that made me realize that there is no finite extent to what Edward would do or would not do because of his love for bella. Sweet.

I am not sure if Jacob would ever be capable of that - and I am sure, he would have healed and obsoleted Bella sometime later in his life - of coarse he would have loved bella still but STILL though, he would have another significant other. Not sweet and demonstrates nothing.

Of coarse, edward's suicide mission and jacob's incapability of doing something like that is still an insignificant fact to tell me who loves bella more.

Edward was too obsessed with his own feelings of love for Bella to think about anything or anyone else. this happens repeatedly throughout the books. Eclipse is a prime example of it. He is too obsessed with HIS fear for Bella and HIS discomfort to consider what SHE wants.

Jacob, on the other hand, was obsessed with keeping her alive. so yes, he lied. but can't you see how desperate he was? he was about to go off into a situation where he knew he could actually die, and this would be his one last chance to make her see that she was in love with him. so yes, he lied. but he did it for her. edward tried to kill himself for him.

I am not sure if Edward was ever obsessed with his own emotions - is that even possible? However, he was obsessed about bella's safety.

Yeahhhh, being desperate excuses mild manipulation and threatening of your own death?
Oh please, we all knew jacob didn't think he would die. He was an optimist - he knew they'd win and he was excited about it. The whole reason he manipulated bella was because he was still playing games and fighting for her.