Edward and Bella #1

[Jazz Girl]

So, part of the reason I asked about what you guys thought they did that summer was because in NM it says Bella had only been to the Meadow that one time.

NM page 195 "The beautiful meadow I'd seen only once in my life, lit by sunshine and the sparkle of his skin."

Damn, SuzyQ248. I completely overlooked that line, didn't I? There are lines through Eclipse that really made me believe that was a regular place for them to visit. And, of course, at the end of Eclipse, after they go see Alice and talk about the wedding, Edward says to her, "Let's get out of here. Let's go to our meadow." That alone could just be the fact that they both knew what that meadow represented to them. But, the way she describes it in the next passage just really makes me believe that it was a place they visited regularly together.

[shakespeareowns]

I'm not sure if I'm just being crazy so I wanted to see if anyone else felt this way. Is it just me or does Edward and Bella's relationship seem abusive. I'm not talking about psychically, I'm talking about mentally. I searched online and the defintion of an abusive relationship is (according to http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive.htm)

Abusive relationships are characterized by extreme jealousy, emotional withholding, lack of intimacy, raging, sexual coercion, infidelity, verbal abuse, threats, lies, broken promises, physical violence, power plays and control games.

Does any of this sound like it could apply to Edward and Bella's relationship or am I being paranoid and too analytical?

[akire]

I'm not sure if I'm just being crazy so I wanted to see if anyone else felt this way. Is it just me or does Edward and Bella's relationship seem abusive. I'm not talking about psychically, I'm talking about mentally. I searched online and the definition of an abusive relationship is (according to http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive.htm)

Abusive relationships are characterized by extreme jealousy, emotional withholding, lack of intimacy, raging, sexual coercion, infidelity, verbal abuse, threats, lies, broken promises, physical violence, power plays and control games.

Does any of this sound like it could apply to Edward and Bella's relationship or am I being paranoid and too analytical?

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this . I took a class on helping people get out of abusive relationships and some of the stuff we learned about TOTALLY related to E & B.

Jealousy? Check! Emotional withholding? Check! Control games? Check! Good grief! And all of the excuses Edward uses for the stuff he does. "I care about you." "I want you to be safe." etc.

So, why do we still find this appealing? I guess, for me, it's mostly because their relationship gets past all that. Think about it... in the end, everything Edward didn't want for Bella turns out to be what is best.

[suzyq248]

So, part of the reason I asked about what you guys thought they did that summer was because in NM it says Bella had only been to the Meadow that one time.

NM page 195 "The beautiful meadow I'd seen only once in my life, lit by sunshine and the sparkle of his skin."

Damn, SuzyQ248. I completely overlooked that line, didn't I? There are lines through Eclipse that really made me believe that was a regular place for them to visit. And, of course, at the end of Eclipse, after they go see Alice and talk about the wedding, Edward says to her, "Let's get out of here. Let's go to our meadow." That alone could just be the fact that they both knew what that meadow represented to them. But, the way she describes it in the next passage just really makes me believe that it was a place they visited regularly together.

I also thought it seemed like they visited the meadow a lot, that is why that line in NM stuck out to me so much. I also like your idea, Akire, about the regular everyday activities. It is just hard for me to imagine Bella and Edward doing things like going to the movies or mall. And typical summer activities are mostly out because of the sun.

I'm not sure if I'm just being crazy so I wanted to see if anyone else felt this way. Is it just me or does Edward and Bella's relationship seem abusive. I'm not talking about psychically, I'm talking about mentally. I searched online and the definition of an abusive relationship is (according to http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive.htm)

Abusive relationships are characterized by extreme jealousy, emotional withholding, lack of intimacy, raging, sexual coercion, infidelity, verbal abuse, threats, lies, broken promises, physical violence, power plays and control games.

Does any of this sound like it could apply to Edward and Bella's relationship or am I being paranoid and too analytical?

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this . I took a class on helping people get out of abusive relationships and some of the stuff we learned about TOTALLY related to E & B.

Jealousy? Check! Emotional withholding? Check! Control games? Check! Good grief! And all of the excuses Edward uses for the stuff he does. "I care about you." "I want you to be safe." etc.

So, why do we still find this appealing? I guess, for me, it's mostly because their relationship gets past all that. Think about it... in the end, everything Edward didn't want for Bella turns out to be what is best.

I have thought about this before and gone back and forth on it. What really pushed me in the nonabusive side were three things, 1. SM saying something about being surprised people saw it that way and it wasn't the case. 2. The fact that his nature is completely different. His whole world revolves around Bella and protecting her and the fact that the things he protects her from are so outside our normal realm. 3. And it all turns out okay in the end and they end up being on much more even ground working together and protecting each other

[Jazz Girl]

I'm not sure if I'm just being crazy so I wanted to see if anyone else felt this way. Is it just me or does Edward and Bella's relationship seem abusive. I'm not talking about psychically, I'm talking about mentally. I searched online and the defintion of an abusive relationship is (according to http://www.recovery-man.com/abusive/abusive.htm)

Abusive relationships are characterized by extreme jealousy, emotional withholding, lack of intimacy, raging, sexual coercion, infidelity, verbal abuse, threats, lies, broken promises, physical violence, power plays and control games.

Does any of this sound like it could apply to Edward and Bella's relationship or am I being paranoid and too analytical?

Shakespeareowns, as well as my fellow posters, forgive my semi-laziness. As many of you know, I have extremely strong views on this topic, and honestly, who didn't expect me to respond. So, I am going to copy what I posted on the this thread in response to an article post put there a little over a month ago. I am sure it makes my thoughts quite clear. I went through and bolded the areas that I think address your specific concerns about emotional and psychological abuse, specifically.

" However, on the whole, I think you make the same mistakes that those who condemn the Harry Potter series for condoning witchcraft and black magic make. You look at the surface without taking the time to truly understand the message. Let me start by saying that this is a topic that has been covered in much discussion on the Lex. And I have posted on many of those discussions. As I read your post, I wear many hats; Twilighter, woman, social worker, advocate for abused women and children, and survivor of a violent adolescent relationship. I will preface these thoughts as I did the previous: I do not put myself out there as an expert on feminism or violent relationships. What I say is strictly from my point of view and is based solely on my experiences working with survivors, and being a survivor...

As strongly as I feel about that issue, it is your assertion, not only that the relationship between Edward and Bella is abusive, but that this is, in some way, glorifying or even normalizing, abusive relationships that really snaps my teeth together. I will take exception to your examples first, and then address your further assumptions about violent relationships in general,

As you have already put it out there as, "the most alarming moment", we can stick with the incident involving Bella's truck. Let me start by saying that, on the face of it, this incident, an incident where a boyfriend removes a piece of the engine to prevent his girlfriend from leaving her home to visit someone would qualify, both legally and socially, as domestic violence. However, there are two factors that you so completely overlook and write off that completely alter the situation.

First, the supernatural/magical elements to the story add a context to the event that cannot be overlooked. In this case, Edward removes a piece of the engine to prevent Bella from visiting her friend Jacob. But, let's throw in to the story that Jacob is a werewolf, and a young werewolf at that. Werewolves, particularly young ones, are notoriously unstable, unable to control their emotions. They are also highly dangerous when they are unstable. Also add in that Edward is a vampire and the werewolves are his sworn mortal enemies. And, finally, add in that, within the circle of friends is a woman who has been gravely injured by her werewolf fiance in a momentary loss of control, a freak accident by someone who is much older and in better control than the boy Bella is going to meet. Also a factor, Bella seems to be stalked by horrible accidents. Fate is really trying to kill her and Edward believes he is fighting fate at every turn trying to keep Bella alive. Finally, add it that Bella seems to do everything she can to give fate a free shot at her.

Second, a factor that you so freely and blithely write-off, are Edward's intentions. Individuals who abuse their partners have an incredibly self-centered view of the world. Everything is all about them; their feelings, thoughts, beliefs, wants and needs, and how other things that happen reflect on them. They refuse to recognize that they are responsible for anything or that their actions cause anyone pain or hurt. In this case, Edward's intentions are only to protect Bella, to keep her alive. Edward recognizes almost immediately that what he did hurt Bell, and he immediately changes his beliefs and his behavior. He encourages Bella to visit Jacob, even driving her to Jake's place. Relationship abuse is all about power and control. When I am teaching, I use the following definition:
"domestic violence is the use of power and control within an intimate relationship that threatens
another's well-being."
Every relationship has different power dynamics. In some cases, one partner might have more money or be physically stronger or more successful in the community. What matters is how that dynamic plays out in the relationship itself. Edward's actions, while tip toeing the line on one or two occassions, never are intended to hurt Bella, and in fact are intended to do the opposite. And, on those one or two occassions, Edward immediately recognizes his fault, admits it, and changes his behavior. Believe me when I say, if the relationship were in any way abusive, that wouldn't happen.

As for your assertion that Edward used emotional manipulation to coerce Bella into getting married, this will be the one time I openly tell you you are wrong. Again, it is the supernatural elements to the story that contradict you outright. It would be different if Bella wasn't committed to the relationship, was questioning it in some way. But, Bella has already decided that she wants to commit her life to Edward by having him change her into a vampire; in my opinion a little more committed than marriage. Bella doesn't see the need for a wedding when she is already giving him forever. Bella has been raised by a mother who married early and without much thought. She feels she made a huge mistake and has ingrained her daughter with her fears and prejudices. Bella, like many of us, was raised in a time and environment where marriage is a sort of formality that we go through; something that can be done and undone just as easily. To her, her true committment to Edward is in her transformation. But, Edward is a man born in 1901 and raised in a differnt time, when marriage was the only form of committment there was, and it truly meant something to everyone. Edward doesn't coerce her or blackmail her. He listens as Bella explains why she is afraid of marriage, and explains to her why he thinks it is so important. Then, he asks her to understand. It is no different than the compromises many of us reach about our weddings. Who amongst us can honestly say that there wasn't something they did in their wedding that they didn't agree with 100%, but they did it anyway to satisfy their partner or a family member or their community."

Again, by no means do I put myself out there as an expert. But, given my history and my profession, I can't not respond to this assertion whenever it is made. I hope you all understand.

[twilightsagaaddict]

Very well stated JazzGirl. Thank you for sharing not only your story, but your insight into this topic.

[Jen]

wow, Jazz Girl, that was an amazing response, and I completely agree with your assessments. I'm usually both amused and annoyed with so many that rashly jump to the "abusive relationship" scenario. Your response is one I think all should read. Great Job!!

[akire]

I liked your post, JazzGirl -- from what I've read on other boards you always have such intelligent posts. Major kudos. I'm not even going to pretend that I can respond to, or disagree with, what you wrote.

I think it's interesting to look at the relationship from all angles, positive and negative -- and I guess I'm just a little late to the party (so to speak) as it has already been discussed extensively.

Which is not to say some of the ways Edward and Bella manipulate each other don't weird me out. But, I'm not in love with a vampire. Very much.

Ahem. Anyone else have a fun, interesting topic to discuss?

[Jazz Girl]

Akire, I completely agree with you. It is kind of like Jacob tells Bella. You have to look at all sides of a thing to fully understand what is going on and what your role in it is, as it were. By no means, especially early on, do I think that Edward and Bella's relationship is perfect, by any means. Like any other couple, they have to learn how to be together. And, of course, they had some seriously greater challenges doing that than your quote normal couple. So, they had their growing pains. I think what we all love about the story, what gives us hope that we can find our Edward or our Bella is that they do overcome them, all of them.

[Jazz Girl]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to get another question out there for consideration.

Question Time! Question Time!

On the Bella thread, there's been a bit of a discussion as to just when it was that Bella really realized she loved Jacob. So, my question to you all is a complimentary one: When do you think Edward realized that Bella loved Jacob? What were his first thoughts about it? I have my own thoughts, but I will save them til later.