Okay, this is going to be long, so you might want to get a cup of coffee!
Violet Sunlight wrote:Ok. For me, Jacob’s actions prove to me how thick his vampire prejudices are.
While I recognise that a lot of prejudice comes into play when it comes to Jacob's behaviour, this is still not enough to excuse him. He is, as is repeatedly said, a very good person. Seth manages to treat the vampires well. Jealousy is the most likely thing at play here. But, because he is a good person, I do expect a certain level of good behaviour from him, which we don't usually get by the time we reach Eclipse.
Violet Sunlight wrote: Jacob believes vampires are dead. The dead don’t have or need rights. Therefore, doesn’t acknowledge Edward’s rights and Bella’s choice to be with Edward. Therefore, in Jacob’s mind Bella is single.
It is clear by his behaviour that he does not believe Bella is single, or else he wouldn't be trying so hard or be in such a hurry to steal her away, as she would be in no danger of going off with Edward. He knows that she wants to be with Edward. He certainly does want to "save her from the monster", and he hopes that if she realises that she loves him too it might make her change her mind. But I do believe there is more selfishness than selflessness in his motivation.
Violet Sunlight wrote:Jacob did not want to be pushy and aggressive with Bella but he had about less than 30 days to act before Bella dies and, not to mention, become his disgusting mortal enemy. It is hard to do things smoothly and in an orderly fashion when you are hard pressed like that. Jacob himself wishes he had more time to do things smoothly. But, that was, yet again, another luxury taken away from him because of a vampire.
That is true, but it only excuses so much. Again, Jacob is repeatedly called a good person, but he displays extremely poor judgement, poor behaviour, and hurts Bella time and time again by his behaviour towards Edward. He also refuses to trust her judgement. While his behaviour is understandable, in my mind how far he went tarnishes the idea that he is so good.
Violet Sunlight wrote:At one point, I did want Jacob’s apology for kissing Bella without her permission. You can impulsively kiss your girlfriend but not before she is the girlfriend. However, towards the end of Eclipse she kisses him back and confirms his theory she does love him romantically. Then I said, forget it I don’t need an apology now. He read her actions correctly. If Bella would have never confirmed this then I would have needed an apology from him. His theory and even Edward’s theory was right. Bella romantically loves Jacob too.
That does not mean that he was right to do this. The ends do not justify the means. To manipulate someone into kissing you by threatening to kill yourself is not acceptable behaviour regardless of the end result. While it is good that Bella realises her true feelings for Jake, it is inexcusable that he goes to these lengths to inform her of it. No matter the result, it was an insensitive and abrasive way of behaving. What makes it even worse is that he congratulates himself for it. Once Bella had acknowledged her love for him it would have been a good time for him to say, "I'm sorry for the things I did that hurt you, although I'm not sorry for why I did them." He doesn't. He pats himself of the back for it instead.
Violet Sunlight wrote:I really think if Bella would have chosen a human or human shape-shifter instead of a vampire as a boyfriend, Jacob would have painfully walked away. Or, if Jacob still felt strongly for Bella, he would have at least remained nearby as a standby for Bella, waiting for her relationship to end. But, Jacob definitely would not have interfered.
If he didn't believe that she loved him, maybe not. But, if he thought that she did love him, then I believe his behaviour would have been much the same, although he may have been a little more polite to his rival. His primary motivation is that he believes he's in with a chance. With Sam and Emily, Leah knew that Sam could never feel for her as he did for Emily, so it was a different situation.
I often wonder how Jake would have behaved if he had believed that Bella loved Mike Newton, rather than himself. It would be interesting to ask SM this. Would he have fought as hard? Would he have fought at all? I think he might have fought a little, but certainly not as hard as he did. Ironically, that would have made his behaviour more acceptable, because he would have been fighting on someone else's behalf, and he probably would have concentrated more on the vampire side of the equation than let his jealousy and arrogance get in the way as much as it did.
Violet Sunlight wrote:OK. In this scene Jacob unintentionally puts Bella in the middle to purposefully hurt Edward emotionally. Jacob probably thought Edward would not have shown his pain only felt it. Therefore, only Edward would suffer not Bella. It was a bonus for Jacob that it did a better job than he initially thought. I am sure he was not counting on Bella's suffering. This is unfortunately, the consequences for Bella for emotionally dragging someone along for her benefit. As Tornado and Jazzgirl so brilliantly said Bella also keeps Jacob around as an insurance policy in case Edward dumps her again for her own good Jacob can make repairs. Jacob has clearly said how he feels about Bella and no matter how much Bella tries to convince Jacob to be something else Jacob has said flat out no. So everyone involved continually suffers.
I think it's a bit much to blame Bella for Jacob's performance here. In fact, his opinion of Edward is so low I'm sure he would have expected Edward to tell Bella what he had done just to elicit sympathy from her and turn her against Jacob. There is no reason to suspect that he did not mean to hurt Bella. This is made clear when Bella asks him not to do it again, and he can barely give her a civil response. Not exactly the reply you'd give if it had just occurred to you that the woman you love might have been hurt by this action, which is pretty obvious at that stage. He simply finds everything he does justifiable and everyone else's behaviour, if it doesn't agree with his, suspect. Typical Jacob behaviour.
Violet Sunlight wrote:Ok. Here is Edward's comeback. In the end of the tent scene Edward intentionally puts Bella in the middle to purposefully hurt Jacob emotionally when he knowingly says out loud My top ten best was when you said you will marry me. Mrs. Cullen. Of course Edward got what he wanted Jacob heard everything and now is emotionally hurt. Edward too was surprise how the plan affected Bella. But, in this case the ramifications went further than just hurt for Bella and Jacob this catapolted their relationship. But of course it was short lived because as we know Bella loves Edward more.
It was certainly wrong for Edward to do that, although he was correct in saying that Jacob did have a right to know. It was clear that there was something wrong in the fact that Bella didn't want to tell Jacob that she was engaged, which, I'm sure, hurt Edward. Considering the wrongs that Jake had piled up against Edward at this point, and after the night he had just had, it wasn't surprising that he snapped. But a very wrong thing to do, certainly, as he then acknowledges. This is always the primary reason why I like Edward more than Jacob. Edward is man enough to admit when he has done the wrong thing and apologise. Jacob just says that he was right to do it and he'd do it again. I can't stand that kind of arrogance.
Violet Sunlight wrote:So our prince charming is not beneath playing dirty. I think that tent scene made Edward pretty nervous. And her not wearing the wedding ring probably made him nervous. And he was not taking any chances. Edward does not have to play hard he already has Bella and they both have all the time in the world. Bella human, Bella vampire it is the same thing. But, Jacob does not. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
It's odd that you would mention her not wearing the ring in this context. Yes, it made Edward nervous. He is never as sure of Bella as Bella seems to think he is, and this is justified, since she does love Jacob too. It was hardly surprising that he felt the need for reassurance. That he has Bella for certain is by no means clear, as her behaviour tells him, such as not wearing the ring and wanting to see Jacob all the time. TGDS (The Great Dog Snog) only confirms this for him.