Edward and Bella 2

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moon sidhe
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by moon sidhe » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:38 am

The Dark Knight wrote:
Well if I wanted to play devil's advocate here, one could say she was trying desperately to be worthy of Edward with these huge over the top selfless acts. One could say that she was just defective and had woring problems. One could asy she just had a death wish. One could say that she was crying our for help. But, I'm not saying that... :)
I hear ya. I suppose the only thing that argues that it's her nature is that it was a pretty selfless act to move to Forks for the sake of Renee's relationship. And that of course was before she knew Edward. It's an interesting thought that she would try to be selfless to be worthy of Edward, but I personally don't think that was the case. I think it was just her nature. I mean, I generally like Bella, and certainly her intentions were almost always good, but her inability to find any self-worth or voice her own needs etc. was virtually a personality disorder. If there existed a disorder in the DSM IV that was the polar opposite of narcissistic personality disorder, that would be her diagnosis.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:01 am

moon sidhe wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
Well if I wanted to play devil's advocate here, one could say she was trying desperately to be worthy of Edward with these huge over the top selfless acts. One could say that she was just defective and had woring problems. One could asy she just had a death wish. One could say that she was crying our for help. But, I'm not saying that... :)
I hear ya. I suppose the only thing that argues that it's her nature is that it was a pretty selfless act to move to Forks for the sake of Renee's relationship. And that of course was before she knew Edward. It's an interesting thought that she would try to be selfless to be worthy of Edward, but I personally don't think that was the case. I think it was just her nature. I mean, I generally like Bella, and certainly her intentions were almost always good, but her inability to find any self-worth or voice her own needs etc. was virtually a personality disorder. If there existed a disorder in the DSM IV that was the polar opposite of narcissistic personality disorder, that would be her diagnosis.
Never bought the concept of true selflessness. It just seems very counter productive of human nature. I run on the concept that self interest governs all. With this concept we can predict with great certainty how one will act. Just follow their personal behavior patterns and it will lead you to the method of their particular madness. In short believe people will act as you have seen them act all along. There are exceptions of course but they have likely escaped the psychological ward...

Now Bella actions are predictable, in that she has a WIIFM (what’s in it for me). Her behaviors alter to accommodate her obsession which is Edward. He is all consuming to her, which gives one the ability to see her next move way before she makes it. Even Nessie is a direct linear logic given her desire to please and accommodate Edward. The child of Edward is far more valuable than herself. The pattern that I follow to see how Bella will move is which direction is the most self destructive way to please Edward. Pretty sad but if you read the book again and look at what is next and ask yourself, “what’s the most self destructive way to please Edward?” You’ll see this.

Now for you all, given the concept of “self interest governs all,” can you find the fundamental indicator for Edward?

When you combine these indicators you have the root of their relationship…nice tie in right? :P
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Angelvamp
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Angelvamp » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:51 am

The Dark Knight wrote:Never bought the concept of true selflessness. It just seems very counter productive of human nature. I run on the concept that self interest governs all. With this concept we can predict with great certainty how one will act. Just follow their personal behavior patterns and it will lead you to the method of their particular madness. In short believe people will act as you have seen them act all along. There are exceptions of course but they have likely escaped the psychological ward...

Now Bella actions are predictable, in that she has a WIIFM (what’s in it for me). Her behaviors alter to accommodate her obsession which is Edward. He is all consuming to her, which gives one the ability to see her next move way before she makes it. Even Nessie is a direct linear logic given her desire to please and accommodate Edward. The child of Edward is far more valuable than herself. The pattern that I follow to see how Bella will move is which direction is the most self destructive way to please Edward. Pretty sad but if you read the book again and look at what is next and ask yourself, “what’s the most self destructive way to please Edward?” You’ll see this.

Now for you all, given the concept of “self interest governs all,” can you find the fundamental indicator for Edward?

When you combine these indicators you have the root of their relationship…nice tie in right? :P
I could have used your WIIFM concept on the Imprinting thread a few days ago...oh well. :roll:

As far as her selfless act of moving to Forks, what was the WIIFM motivation? Are you thinking that her desire was to please her mom? Making pleasing her mom, in effect, her obsession? Is Bella the sort of person that needs an obsession or someone to please all the time? And what about Edward, before he met Bella?
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:55 am

Angelvamp wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:Never bought the concept of true selflessness. It just seems very counter productive of human nature. I run on the concept that self interest governs all. With this concept we can predict with great certainty how one will act. Just follow their personal behavior patterns and it will lead you to the method of their particular madness. In short believe people will act as you have seen them act all along. There are exceptions of course but they have likely escaped the psychological ward...

Now Bella actions are predictable, in that she has a WIIFM (what’s in it for me). Her behaviors alter to accommodate her obsession which is Edward. He is all consuming to her, which gives one the ability to see her next move way before she makes it. Even Nessie is a direct linear logic given her desire to please and accommodate Edward. The child of Edward is far more valuable than herself. The pattern that I follow to see how Bella will move is which direction is the most self destructive way to please Edward. Pretty sad but if you read the book again and look at what is next and ask yourself, “what’s the most self destructive way to please Edward?” You’ll see this.

Now for you all, given the concept of “self interest governs all,” can you find the fundamental indicator for Edward?

When you combine these indicators you have the root of their relationship…nice tie in right? :P
I could have used your WIIFM concept on the Imprinting thread a few days ago...oh well. :roll:

As far as her selfless act of moving to Forks, what was the WIIFM motivation? Are you thinking that her desire was to please her mom? Making pleasing her mom, in effect, her obsession? Is Bella the sort of person that needs an obsession or someone to please all the time? And what about Edward, before he met Bella?
You know just last night reading Chosen in the House of Night series, theygave a possible explanation. The mother of Zoey is what I call anon-person, meaning they need someone else to have an identity. In the case of Bella her submissive care taking is a lessor form of this. She needs to needed so she can fulfill her role. She gives till it hurts. This is her nature and her WIIFM. does this help?

I leave the Edward discussion to you all to answer...
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Angelvamp
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Angelvamp » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:08 am

I think we are on the same page regarding Bella in this particular topic, Dark Knight. I really don't see her as being able to define herself without her relationships with other people. She had no real friends or love interests before Forks, her relationship with her mother defined her. After meeting Edward, it shifted to him defining her.

As for Edward, what defined him before Bella? That's what's most interesting to me, it's obvious he exists only for her after they meet. Her happiness is his WIIFM, IMO. But it's more he denies himself til it hurts, rather than give til it hurts.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by opulent » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:34 am

The Dark Knight wrote:
Well done, well done indeed...may haappiness follow your quest of the heart...Their will be time to climb in his bedroom later as you two get to know each other better...have fun and don't do anything I wouldn't do. ;)
Thank you Diane and DK for your kindness. But why would I want to do anything that you would do, DK? :D Just kidding!

And to make you ecstatic, DK, he barely resembles Edward. ;) I do have some sense left in me after all.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by diane771 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:53 am

Maybe he looks like DK :lol: :lol: Edward is strange looking but they say that the make up and hair is going to be different and Rob nothing wrong with him at all. :D I'd take him but he is younger than my son :lol: You won't believe what my son says about him, OH Well what can you say, family is always family :D
You go with your feelings if it doesn't work at least you will have fun. But, I do think Edward had something about him that I would have gone far too. But thats between us. 8-)
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by moon sidhe » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:58 am

diane771 wrote: You won't believe what my son says about him, OH Well what can you say, family is always family :D
Haha. It's amazing the number of guys who seem to loathe poor Edward. I can't imagine why. heh. I guess they don't particularly like it when half the female population is apparently swooning over him. Silly jealous boys. ;)
You are in my blood like holy wine
and you taste so bitter but you taste so sweet
Oh I could drink a case of you darling
And I would still be on my feet

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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:10 am

opulent wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
Well done, well done indeed...may haappiness follow your quest of the heart...Their will be time to climb in his bedroom later as you two get to know each other better...have fun and don't do anything I wouldn't do. ;)
Thank you Diane and DK for your kindness. But why would I want to do anything that you would do, DK? :D Just kidding!

And to make you ecstatic, DK, he barely resembles Edward. ;) I do have some sense left in me after all.

There are 5 things on the list that I would not do, all five would scar you for life if they are even explained to you...yes I have freinds in low places...the question is why do i look up at them... :lol:

There's hope for you yet...go have fun...
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:13 am

moon sidhe wrote:
diane771 wrote: You won't believe what my son says about him, OH Well what can you say, family is always family :D
Haha. It's amazing the number of guys who seem to loathe poor Edward. I can't imagine why. heh. I guess they don't particularly like it when half the female population is apparently swooning over him. Silly jealous boys. ;)
I can see why...
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