Edward and Bella 2

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The Dark Knight
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:51 pm

bac wrote:
The Dark Knight wrote:
So you see her wanting to keep her youth and good looks as prideful not vain?
No, I don't see her as wanting to keep her youth and good looks. Therefore not vain.

I more agree with the idea of her comparing herself with Edward and his physical looks. I agree with what Angelvamp said. If Edward were human, or if Bella had chosen Jacob, then she may enjoy growing older and the signs of age. Then they would both be aging together and showing those signs of age together, as apposed to just her.
I can see that, I still have a few things then I don't get...Her dream of her grandma/her and the comments about not getting any closer to 18 seems to me to be vain? Help me see how they are not?
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Dxplora07 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:28 pm

I see Bella not necessarily wanting to keep her youth and good looks(she doesn't even consider herself goodlooking to begin with) as being vain, but just being reasonable. In all honesty, what woman do you know doesn't fear growing old to some point? If a man earns a lot of money, or holds a high position that gives him a lot of power, it doesn't matter how over weight he is, or whether he has a full head of hair or not. That's how men are defined in society, by how important they are..but women are completely different. It's slowly starting to change, this is true. But how often do you see in public a fat, wrinkly old lady with a pool boy on her arm? Now how often do you see a fat, wrinkly old man with a shapely young blond on his arm? We do see what has been dubbed "cougars" out with young men...but cougars are older woman who have retained their youthful beauty. Lypo-suction, botox, breat implants, all medical procedures to help a woman retain her youthful appearance. If you see two good-looking seventeen year olds holding hands walking through the mall you might not spare a second glace. Now if you saw a 60 year old woman holding hands with strapping 17 year old boy, your attention holds! We've never known Bella to want to be the object of anyone's attention for any reason. And for that matter, the cullens try to attract as little attention as possible. I'm sure that a woman old enough to be her lover's mother would attract unwanted attention from the local communty as well as law-enforcement agencies....To Catch a Predator, anyone? I totally see where Bella is coming from, I feel it's totally justified.

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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:45 pm

Dxplora07 wrote:I see Bella not necessarily wanting to keep her youth and good looks(she doesn't even consider herself goodlooking to begin with) as being vain, but just being reasonable. In all honesty, what woman do you know doesn't fear growing old to some point? If a man earns a lot of money, or holds a high position that gives him a lot of power, it doesn't matter how over weight he is, or whether he has a full head of hair or not. That's how men are defined in society, by how important they are..but women are completely different. It's slowly starting to change, this is true. But how often do you see in public a fat, wrinkly old lady with a pool boy on her arm? Now how often do you see a fat, wrinkly old man with a shapely young blond on his arm? We do see what has been dubbed "cougars" out with young men...but cougars are older woman who have retained their youthful beauty. Lypo-suction, botox, breat implants, all medical procedures to help a woman retain her youthful appearance. If you see two good-looking seventeen year olds holding hands walking through the mall you might not spare a second glace. Now if you saw a 60 year old woman holding hands with strapping 17 year old boy, your attention holds! We've never known Bella to want to be the object of anyone's attention for any reason. And for that matter, the cullens try to attract as little attention as possible. I'm sure that a woman old enough to be her lover's mother would attract unwanted attention from the local communty as well as law-enforcement agencies....To Catch a Predator, anyone? I totally see where Bella is coming from, I feel it's totally justified.

And this is not the definition of Vanity how?
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Angelvamp
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Angelvamp » Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:27 am

I don't see it as vanity either, as Dxplora07 states, it is realism. Bella doesn't want to be the focus of negative attention from everyone. Just like she didn't want to be "that girl" when Edward wanted to get married. Perhaps you can explain why you think it is vanity, Dark Knight. On the surface, I could see how you may arrive at that conclusion. But her motivation is not necessarily for her to keep her good looks, IMO.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:23 am

Angelvamp wrote:I don't see it as vanity either, as Dxplora07 states, it is realism. Bella doesn't want to be the focus of negative attention from everyone. Just like she didn't want to be "that girl" when Edward wanted to get married. Perhaps you can explain why you think it is vanity, Dark Knight. On the surface, I could see how you may arrive at that conclusion. But her motivation is not necessarily for her to keep her good looks, IMO.
Her dream and comments make the case that she wants to remain young and beautiful forever. Th search for the fountain of youth is all about vanity. She may have a few other motives blended in there but her actions say she is vain.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Angelvamp » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:06 am

Hmm, I'm not sure what actions you are referring to, Dark Knight. I believe her motivation is to be Edward's equal, an equal partner in the relationship. I think the Gran dream was about the horror of growing old and dying, and possibly going into the afterlife, without Edward. If he is immortal, she would want to be too. Perhaps to spare Edward from her death or perhaps to have the opportunity to love him forever. But I wouldn't classify that as "vanity" or "excessive pride in one's appearance, abilities, qualities or achievements". After all, I don't think she chose to become one of the undead just to preserve her youth and good looks. Would Bella choose immortality if Edward wasn't also immortal? I guess that is the crux of it for me.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Dxplora07 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:48 pm

And this is not the definition of Vanity how?
Vanity, by definition is the inflated pride in one's appearance. Bella doesn't take any kind of pride in her appearance at all, if anything she is ashamed of it in comparison to edward. She only wants to appear to blend in, not be raised above the norm. That's how it's not vanity.
Also, her comments to not demonstrate that she wants to remain young and beautiful forever, she just wants to remain with Edward forever.

Angelvamp, I think it's very safe to assume that she would remain mortal if edward weren' immortal...she has stated on many occasion a world without edward's existance would make no sense to her, and she herself could not exist without him. I have every confidence that if Edward were to live a normal, mortal life and die a mortal death, she would gladly remain mortal with him.

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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Emmett_Pwnz_All » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:38 pm

I dunno why the heck it would matter how old she was though?
Many people are only a few years apart, the girl being older.
LIKE ONE YEAR CHANGES LOOKS xD
She's too dramatic.
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by The Dark Knight » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:39 pm

I hear you view and to a large degree that make since. This horse is nearly dead...so let's take the question raised...
by Angelvamp Would Bella choose immortality if Edward wasn't also immortal? I guess that is the crux of it for me.
Any thoughts?
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Re: Edward and Bella 2

Post by Dovrebanen » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:27 pm

The Dark Knight wrote:I hear you view and to a large degree that make since. This horse is nearly dead...so let's take the question raised...
by Angelvamp Would Bella choose immortality if Edward wasn't also immortal? I guess that is the crux of it for me.
Any thoughts?
I see Bella's fears of growing old not as a vanity. I agree with whoever said that Bella wouldn't mind growing old if she was with Jacob, or Mike Newton for that matter. She wanted to be like Edward. She didn't care about immortality in itself. So I would say no, Bella would not choose immortality if Edward was mortal.
I don't know how to really explain it. But I think she wanted to be like Edward. She didn't want to be 30 years "older" than him. And she didn't want to die, and loose him that way. She wanted to be with him forever. She didn't want the beauty or the strength. That was just added bonus. She wanted the man, and nothing else. A year or two or five wouldn't make difference. But 15/20 years would. Her time with him would be limited, and there would be a very noticeable difference between them. I think she would be content with growing old with Edward, but not while he stayed forever 17. And that has nothing to with vanity. It has to do with growing together, instead of one person approaching death while the other is never changing.

And I also think she wanted to know that Edward wanted her forever. That he would make the choice to keep her with him.
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