Bella Swan Cullen #3

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holdingoutforjacob
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by holdingoutforjacob » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:29 pm

Heart_in_Hand wrote: I really feel like everyone does selfish things, but that does not make any one person selfish. To be a selfish person, you need to nearly constantly be doing things that are selfish, and I don't think Bella does. For one, I don't think going to the Volturi to save Edward at the risk of her own life was selfish. And to go meet James head on to take her mothers place (or at least that is what she thought she was doing) was portrayed pretty self-sacrificing to me. She was even willing to give up Edward and the life she could potentially have with him to save her mothers life.
Those things were incredibly selfless. I believe I mentioned them, or if I didn't, I meant to.

I guess selfish was too strong a word? I think she's pretty self-centered, pretty un-self-aware, and pretty immature in a lot of ways. But these things, by nature, come and go. I know a lot of self-centered people who are very kind and generous. I think immaturity covers those moments. Bella's an interesting character, like her or not, because she is such a contrast to herself. She is so responsible in most ways, and so self-reliant in terms of her parents. But then in other ways she's so immature, or I guess better to say would be inexperienced. I think that you can say that all three main characters' mistakes come from inexperience. Bella's personality just happens to rub me the wrong way, and this is what happens when I try to articulate why!! I say it, but then I realize that's not really why, and I just go in circles!!! So thank you for bearing with me so patiently, Heart_In_Hand. I really appreciate your point of view.

I realized a few things watching New Moon tonight. People always say that Bella made all her intentions clear to Jacob - which is true. Regardless of the things she did (obviously subconciously) that made him think that she just needed time to heal from Edward, or she just didn't realize she loved him (that part turned out true, after all), she DID tell him she wouldn't ever be able to function right without Edward, or at least her heart wouldn't.

But Jacob did the same thing. He let her know from the very start that he loved her as a friend and he would always be there for her, but he would fight for her love until her heart stopped beating. They both knew what was at stake. Does that mean that they're not responsible for their actions? Of course not, at least not in my opinion, but it's something to remember.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by Heart_in_Hand » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:02 pm

Not at all HOFJ! I think you do a great job of articulating your opinions! That is why it is so enjoyable to read them! Also why it is easy for me to pick the points that I agree and disagree with so I can comment on them. And I can tell you that you give me a perspective on Bella, and all the characters for that matter, that I might never have been able to see on my own! I love it!

As for Bella specifically, I would have to agree that selfish might not have been the right word to begin with. And I can totally get the whole Bella rubbing you the wrong way thing. I don't think I am alone in the feeling that, especially during Eclipse, Bella was a real trip! I feel like all she did was whine in that book, and it really didn't do much to further the story... Eclipse was my least favorite book. I guess it was important to be rid of Victoria finally, but Bella and Edwards relationship did not progress much in it, and Bella was really annoying to me throughout most of it. The whole "I love Edward more than anything, but I want to be close to Jacob too, and I know it is causing a lot of trouble for everyone, but why can't we all just get along for me" thing got real old, real fast. And at one point I was like, "why do either of these guys even like Bella? Much less love her!"... but I guess I got over it. Bella is human, and she is flawed, and like I think I have said before, I feel like it is all of the characters flaws that make them that much easier to care about. Maybe it's just me. :P
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by holdingoutforjacob » Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:32 pm

Thank you very much! I just have a hard time explaining to myself why I dislike Bella so much, much less explaining it to people who aren't in my head! I've enjoyed this discussion with you, too, very much!

Eclipse was one of my favorite books, mainly because of Jacob. I liked him in this book, I know I'm the only one, but whatever!!

Okay so I have a new topic. After seeing New Moon tonight, it got me thinking. Some of the weakest, most selfish (for lack of a better word), dumbest things Bella did also happened to be some of her only moments of strength, in my opinion. Doing the crazy reckless stunts she pulled were her only manner of defiance of the terrible unfairness of what Edward had done to her. Of course, it was all in the name of "seeing" him again, but what really made me feel that way was something I had forgotten. Right when she is about to jump off the cliff, when she sees Edward, and he "asks" her not to do it, she says "You wanted me to be human. Watch me." There was something about that that made me feel that SM, in writing it this way, was at least a little bit trying to show us some strength in Bella, that she wasn't about to give in. I don't know that made less and less sense as I was typing it!
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by Amanda Beth » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:49 am

I thought something similar HOFJ. Kind of Bella finally standing up to Edward in a hypothetical sense. Although I agree with HiH that Bella whined in Eclipse, I think she also finally put her foot down with Edward which is why it's my favorite book (oh and the additional Jacob time we get I love too).

One reason I think I have always been Team Jacob is that I feel like Edward is controlling of her and I hate that characteristic in ANYONE, regardless of his/her good intentions. Jacob let her try things but was always ready to pick her up if she fell, while Edward would rather have her floating in a bubble where she could never experience anything for herself.

I always stole Edward's description of Bella... she lacks ALL sense of self preservation. She can take care of everyone else in her life, except herself. Maybe it's just part of an immaturity she'd grow out of, or some people do lack certain common sense lol.

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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by SenorGimp » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:46 pm

Had to throw this out there real quick...
I watched Twilight again yesterday, and it really annoyed me how Kristen Stewart is SO emotionless throughout all of the more emotional scenes in the movie, but it got me to thinking...
Maybe that complete lack of ability to emote will serve her well in her portrayal of Zombie-Bella in New Moon, and then the plot of the second book will actually make her seem like a worthwhile actress for at least part of this one movie...
I know that's harsh, but god I just wish they would have cast almost ANYONE else for that role, or the Kristen Stewart were at least capable of mediocre acting...
Sorry, I'll leave off now.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by Asheleyo » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:36 pm

SenorGimp wrote:Had to throw this out there real quick...
I watched Twilight again yesterday, and it really annoyed me how Kristen Stewart is SO emotionless throughout all of the more emotional scenes in the movie, but it got me to thinking...
Maybe that complete lack of ability to emote will serve her well in her portrayal of Zombie-Bella in New Moon, and then the plot of the second book will actually make her seem like a worthwhile actress for at least part of this one movie...
I know that's harsh, but god I just wish they would have cast almost ANYONE else for that role, or the Kristen Stewart were at least capable of mediocre acting...
Sorry, I'll leave off now.
Actually, I agree about her acting in Twilight. There didn't seem to be any real connection to her character's real emotions. It felt all too fake and forced.

But I can tell you now that she did a great job in New Moon. Not because she can do emotionless, but because she figured out how to be Bella, how to show her love for Edward and properly portray her pain. She didn't just do zombie well. She did all the emotional parts well. I was so glad to see that change. I really dreaded it being as bad as Twilight and me essentially having wasted my money going to the theatre. But yay for being proved wrong!
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by amethyst » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:53 pm

Amanda Beth wrote: One reason I think I have always been Team Jacob is that I feel like Edward is controlling of her and I hate that characteristic in ANYONE, regardless of his/her good intentions. Jacob let her try things but was always ready to pick her up if she fell, while Edward would rather have her floating in a bubble where she could never experience anything for herself.
If that’s the case, I would like to appeal that Jacob is as much controlling as Edward is. *GASP* Since he couldn’t have direct access where he could prohibit Bella from seeing Edward, he used Charlie as a tool. Ratting Bella out so she could get grounded, thus putting her in a position where she would not be able to see or contact Edward. While, this smooth move didn’t work out too well for him. What right, in the name of God, did he have to decide whom Bella could and could not see? Right, Edward did the same thing. So I hear we define this type of conduct as controlling, am I correct? Edward is a controlling person, Jacob is a controlling person . . .
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by holdingoutforjacob » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:40 pm

Jacob did it once. Edward did it repeatedly. Jacob did it because he thought that she was not grounded, she was being allowed to see Edward at will. He figured if he couldn't see her, Edward shouldn't be able to either. It's all in "Being Jacob Black". Edward figured Bella couldn't make her own decisions. Jacob was upset and angry. Edward had perfect control of his emotions and knew exactly the impact of his decision and did it anyway. Just saying.


But back to Bella please!
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by Jazz Girl » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:19 pm

Never mind.... At this point, it's not even worth it.
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Re: Bella Swan Cullen #3

Post by holdingoutforjacob » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:22 pm

Jazz Girl, what's the point in posting that? I mean really. If you have a topic about Bella, it's very welcome at this point, since we're completely off-topic.
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