Edward Cullen #6

Character Discussion Forum

Moderators: December, Bronze Haired Girl, una

Forum rules
Character Discussion Forum

Click for Forum Rules
User avatar
Asheleyo
Teaching Eric Social Graces
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 7:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Asheleyo » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:49 am

diane771 wrote:It makes sense to a person who thinks he is a monster and has no soul. How easy do we forget the hardships of being a vampire is? How easy do we forget everything Bella is giving up at the age of 18. Trust me when your 18 you look at life a lot differently than 25, 30, 35 and on up so to say that Bella was positively sure what she wanted by Twilight is IMO crazy.

I am not sure how old you are but believe me when you are in your teens and then twenties even your mind grows and so does you goals in life. So, sorry I can't agree to what you are saying because its coming from Bella's emotional, irrational mind and you do stupid things when you think you are in love. Edward waited and good for him! Bella got Jacob out of her mind and they went on to marry. So again what did Edward do wrong by waiting till he felt that they both were ready to make a desision that was irreversable?
I was 18 when I got engaged, and 19 when I got married. I knew what I wanted then, and I see Bella as doing the same. She was choosing a life with Edward, and all that she knew that would entail. She understood from her side what she would be able to stand, and she couldn't stomach growing old and dying and leaving Edward behind. If she is to have him, she has to have him forever. I'm not saying she's always right, but she knew what she wanted.

I think Edward forgets that Bella is not a normal person. She makes big decisions and she sticks to them. I think Edward kept waiting for the moment that Bella would no longer want him, when her fleeting human emotions would attach themselves to someone else, and he would have to let her go. But he was only fooling himself if he ever thought that Bella would stop wanting him. I would have thought New Moon would have taught him the power of Bella's love for him, and just how far she'd go for him. He shouldn't have underestimated it.
Precisely because death awaits us in the end, we must live fully.

Stars did fly toward each other, irresistibly, as if they were falling in love. And millions of years later, lovers on Earth drew together and fell in love, watching the stars fall.

User avatar
Jazz Girl
Making beautiful music with Edward as only I can
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Rob's HalfwayHouse, shacked up with some FicWard.

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:40 pm

Asheleyo wrote:I think Edward forgets that Bella is not a normal person. She makes big decisions and she sticks to them. I think Edward kept waiting for the moment that Bella would no longer want him, when her fleeting human emotions would attach themselves to someone else, and he would have to let her go. But he was only fooling himself if he ever thought that Bella would stop wanting him. I would have thought New Moon would have taught him the power of Bella's love for him, and just how far she'd go for him. He shouldn't have underestimated it.

I think herein lays Edward's true mistake. He severely and constantly underestimated Bella in general. Her feelings, her dedication and even in some cases, her abilities. I've said before, Edward has a bit of a superiority complex about vampires. After almost a century living as a powerful preternatural being, Edward is absolutely positive that everything human is weak compared to everything vampire. It is Bella who teaches him otherwise.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Image
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS

User avatar
diane771
Red-Eyed Vampire
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by diane771 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:55 pm

I was 18 when I got engaged, and 19 when I got married. I knew what I wanted then, and I see Bella as doing the same. She was choosing a life with Edward, and all that she knew that would entail. She understood from her side what she would be able to stand, and she couldn't stomach growing old and dying and leaving Edward behind. If she is to have him, she has to have him forever. I'm not saying she's always right, but she knew what she wanted
Well I have a little but of experience in that department myself. Now that I am older and wiser, mostly likely than you, your out look on life in general is different,and when you get to where I am,maybe you would not be so ready to jump on the age factor and what Bella wants.
I think herein lays Edward's true mistake. He severely and constantly underestimated Bella in general. Her feelings, her dedication and even in some cases, her abilities. I've said before, Edward has a bit of a superiority complex about vampires. After almost a century living as a powerful preternatural being, Edward is absolutely positive that everything human is weak compared to everything vampire. It is Bella who teaches him otherwise
Edward only has his own experiences and other vamps to come to the conclusion that he is bit of a superiority complex about vampires. its like coming from one culture to another where everything is done differently.
There is nothing wrong with that but Bella and Edward learn each others world and that was a bonding factor too. It wasn't just Bella teaching Edward it was both of them learning about each other. The superiority complex comes from the physical side of the vampires and there is no doubt that is real. So to say that Edward severely and constantly underestimated Bella is a normal reaction with anyone who comes from a different culture and their ways and outlook of the world. Does that make a person superior? NO Are vampires so much more stronger and durable than humans? yes and in the food chain does that make them superior? Yes if you look at it like that. So just thinking and knowing how much a vampire is strong than a human, doesn't mean you go around with a superiority complex, its just the way things are.
Image
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/rules-dont-stop-me
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/i-dont-care0001

User avatar
Jazz Girl
Making beautiful music with Edward as only I can
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Rob's HalfwayHouse, shacked up with some FicWard.

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:31 pm

diane771 wrote:
I think herein lays Edward's true mistake. He severely and constantly underestimated Bella in general. Her feelings, her dedication and even in some cases, her abilities. I've said before, Edward has a bit of a superiority complex about vampires. After almost a century living as a powerful preternatural being, Edward is absolutely positive that everything human is weak compared to everything vampire. It is Bella who teaches him otherwise
Edward only has his own experiences and other vamps to come to the conclusion that he is bit of a superiority complex about vampires. its like coming from one culture to another where everything is done differently.
There is nothing wrong with that but Bella and Edward learn each others world and that was a bonding factor too. It wasn't just Bella teaching Edward it was both of them learning about each other. The superiority complex comes from the physical side of the vampires and there is no doubt that is real. So to say that Edward severely and constantly underestimated Bella is a normal reaction with anyone who comes from a different culture and their ways and outlook of the world. Does that make a person superior? NO Are vampires so much more stronger and durable than humans? yes and in the food chain does that make them superior? Yes if you look at it like that. So just thinking and knowing how much a vampire is strong than a human, doesn't mean you go around with a superiority complex, its just the way things are.
But I am not referring to the physical. Even so. Being physically stronger and more capapble doesn't automatically make one superior to another. I am referring to the emotional. Bella was ALWAYS stronger emotionally than Edward. Edward always assumed that because vampires were physically stronger and more coordinated and had a greater thought capacity, that that meant they were superior in all ways. He discounted the strength of Bella's feelings, her reactions and her beliefs because of it. In this case, Bella was far superior to him and his assumption was completely wrong and lead to so many problems.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Image
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS

User avatar
una
Secret Spy for the Warden
Posts: 2533
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: Sequestered in an alternate reality full of paranormal studs who find me irresitable!

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by una » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:32 pm

I see you all have been busy discussing Edward but in many ways it seems you are discussing Edward and Bella. We have a thread for discussing Edward and Bella's character in regards to their relationship and if we are going to discuss BOTH of them and how elements of each relate to one another, we should move this to that thread. However, if we are going to keep the spotlight on Edward, then please let us use the examples of his interactions with Bella to reinforce your theory/opinion/etc of Edward. However please feel free to take a discussion of Edward and Bella to their thread, here, in the Sparkling Forum.

Thank You!
I am the Impulsive VampVixen.
Image
Thanks to SprtyGal and Fry for the AWESOME banner!

User avatar
diane771
Red-Eyed Vampire
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by diane771 » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:33 pm

coordinated and had a greater thought capacity, that that meant they were superior in all ways
I do not see that in Edward at all. He felt James was a superior hunter than him. Please give an example of Edward feeling he is superior emotionally than Bella, because I never got that from the books at all. But if you think that why? Edward may think he is superior than a bunch of teengers and who wouldn't if you had to go to high school over and over. With Edwards intelligence he was superior than his "school age peers" If you don't physically age it doesn't mean mentally you are stagnant.
Put yourself in his position and all the knowledge of the world he knows, its because he is a vampire and he has lived a very long time and used his time studying. To say that he "acts superior" it does have merit when you live a long life and learn things you would be superior to your "peers".
Edward is stuck in a young looking body, if he was older looking, and he had all this knowledge would he come across with that attitude? No, IMO its just seeing him young and not looking at the whole picture. Carlisle is superior to humans by what he has learned for all of his years on earth, does he come across that way? no its only because Edward has fallen in love for the first time, and he is dealing with feelings like this, and would do anything for Bella and that means not hurting her. He spent years hearing teenagers thoughts, and now he can't hear her. I am sorry but I cut him a break because of who he is, and where he is coming from with Bella. I totally understand his issues, so I do find it hard when people say things like that, and do not go to the root of the problem, and see how he got that way. Bella made a wonderful change in Edward, because Edward was truly a good person deep down, and he buried it for so long.
Image
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/rules-dont-stop-me
http://neverthinkningcom.ning.com/video/i-dont-care0001

amethyst
Teaching Eric Social Graces
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:27 pm

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by amethyst » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:36 pm

Jazz Girl -- I don't see how Bella is emotionally stronger than Edward when she herself felt with such certainty that she felt greater for Edward than he her because she was not worth of being loved by such an angel-like creature. That is not emotionally strong. If anything, both Edward and Bella were emotionally equal--and emotionally they weren't "strong", either of them.
"I never would have banished him from her society as long as she desired his. . . . . But, till then--if you don't believe me, you don't know me--till then, I would have died by inches before I touched a single hair of his head!"

User avatar
Jazz Girl
Making beautiful music with Edward as only I can
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Rob's HalfwayHouse, shacked up with some FicWard.

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl » Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:08 pm

Edward's superiority complex is in his overall attitudes. Edward's attitude towards Bella's feelings for him, his belief that she would just forget him in time when he leaves, that her feelings were fleeting and could not possibly compare to his, are a perfect example. I believe he says to her, "you compare a single tree to the entire forest." Edward believes that Bella, as a human, cannot possibly be as in love, as emotionally connected to him as he is to her. He believes that his feelings for her are stronger than hers for him primarily because he is a vampire and therefore feels everything more deeply than a human. It is one of the reasons he is able to leave her in New Moon, because he truly believes she will forget him with time and that she will not be effected by it in the long run.

Yes, some of his complex comes from his years of experience. And, no, I don't fault him for believing that way. But, it does cause a lot of grief for the people he loves, particularly Bella. But, also keep in mind a superiority complex... a belief that you are better than or above another person or group of people, is usually a way to cover up for in reality feeling inferior to that same person or people. Which I believe Edward did. Edward believed himself to be a souless monster. He believed himself unworthy of love and undeserving of happiness. He spent his countless years watching, listening, to all the humans around him, experience happiness and love. Even the love between his parents and siblings mocked him. Of course, he felt particularly unworthy of Bella's love. As much as it pained him to admit it, he knew, accepted, that any other human was so much better than him in that one way. Once he falls in love with Bella, acknowledges his love for her, it is more of a potent emotion than ever, because he believes that any other human boy, again one with a soul, would be that much better for her. He admits it several times. I never said that his superiority complex, that believing that way, makes him a bad person. But, it does lead to grief and pain for himself and for Bella.

amethyst wrote:Jazz Girl -- I don't see how Bella is emotionally stronger than Edward when she herself felt with such certainty that she felt greater for Edward than he her because she was not worth of being loved by such an angel-like creature. That is not emotionally strong. If anything, both Edward and Bella were emotionally equal--and emotionally they weren't "strong", either of them.


Amethyst~ It is an opinion to be sure that Bella is emotionally stronger. Yes, she feels like she doesn't belong with him. But, I guess I don't see that as an emotional weakness, but more a character flaw. A mistaken or skewed self concept doesn't make someone emotionally weak overall, imo. It just complicates things. And, even with that, it doesn't deter her from fighting for him. Bella is more sure of what she wants, holds onto it with everything she has. She is absolutely positive of her love for him and the future they are supposed to have. She endures everything she endures emotionally; Edward's leaving, the loss of her chosen family, Jacob's advances, her fear and grief for Edward when she might truly lose him, his return, his attempts to delay the inevitable, her pregnancy, Ness' birth, her change and the final confrontation with the Volturi, all while holding on to that one single emotional truth. That she and Edward are absolutely meant to be together forever, literally. Edward fights it. He tries to bend their fate to his will by leaving her human, then by leaving altogether and denying their future. Bella's absolute faith in their love and their future shows me a strength she so rarely gets credit for posessing.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Image
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS

erscott13
Settled in Forks
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:43 am

Edward Cullen #6

Post by erscott13 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:20 pm

I found Edward's character development in Midnight Sun much, much more interesting than Bella's in Twilight. Anyone here agree with me?

User avatar
holdingoutforjacob
Part of Carlisle's Clan
Posts: 2169
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:43 pm
Location: Where the wild things are...

Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by holdingoutforjacob » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:51 pm

amethyst - I completely agree. I don't think either of them were emotionally very strong at all until after Bella's transformation. After that, I think Edward was a lot less gripped by guilt and fear and self-hatred, and Bella's self-image was much better.

Jazz Girl - You're definitely right about Edward's superiority complex. He definitely feels as though vampires are better than humans, and I really think that he has a low regard for humans in general. As for whether or not he feels as though he personally knows better than others, I think he does. And I think it's justified - he's very intelligent, and the mind-reading certainly helps. But he doesn't always know better, and it becomes a problem when he refuses to listen to others, especially Bella. Feeling as though he has more experience than others and therefore has a lot to offer in terms of whatever's going on is great, but it moves beyond a healthy self-esteem to arrogance when he doesn't feel he still needs to consider the contributions of others, or communicate his reasoning.

This is all, of course, just my opinion and interpretation.

ETA: I'm itchin' to reply to your opinion about Bella, JG, but I figure it's better suited to the Bella thread. Care to move the discussion? You also amethyst?
Image

death cannot stop true love, it can only delay it for a while...

Post Reply