Edward Cullen #6

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erscott13
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Edward Cullen #6

Post by erscott13 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:10 am

I find Edward's character development in Midnight Sun much more interesting than Bella's in Twilight. (She gets quite interesting in Breaking Dawn, though.) Maybe he seems more interesting because he has a strong inner conflict.

Anyone agree or disagree?

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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:59 am

erscott13 wrote:I find Edward's character development in Midnight Sun much more interesting than Bella's in Twilight. (She gets quite interesting in Breaking Dawn, though.) Maybe he seems more interesting because he has a strong inner conflict.

Anyone agree or disagree?
I find both to be equally fascinating, just for different reasons. But, if you were to be a little more specific, perhaps we could discuss. Plus, do remember that not everyone has read The Draft That Shall Not Be Named. It can definitely change the perspective.

HOfJ~ Of course, I am always interested in your opinions on our fair lovers. Meet you at the Bella thread.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by diane771 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:34 am

Well I am putting this to rest with this comment. Superior in the dictionary does not mean a bad thing it means that : better or greater in some respects. Edward was, he wasn't human and to portray is actions as superiority is not right. He is in a league all his own.
Its like comparing little league with the major league. Everyone knows that the majors or far more superior to little league and to compare them as equals would be redundant because any rational person would know that you can not compare the two its just not fair.
So to compare Edward and his thinking to a human's thinking is also superficial.
Does Edward come off like that to some? Yes or we wouldn't be having this discussion. Does that mean your opinion is right and the way I see Edward wrong? No because I look down deeper into Edward and I do not see him hating humans or acting superior at all. He is just being realistic about the differences between them. If that makes him have a superiority complex, that fine because that is your opinion. My opinion does not agree with you, so I haven't seen anything to back up your statements. I will leave with my opinion still intact.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by amethyst » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:04 pm

Jazz Girl - I have to respectively disagree with you here Jazz Girl. Edward’s arrogance, I believe, had nothing do with his decision to leave Bella and his belief that he felt greater for her. Edward knew the exact depth of his love towards Bella. Knew how much he would risk for her. Knew that he would fight his own brother for her. He could endure acute sufferings and pain for her. To that, add the fact that vampires emotions are more potent than a humans. Once Edward realized he was in love with Bella, he knew those feelings were irreversible. Years could not change nor falter his love towards her. How could someone who knew so precisely the strength of his feelings to such a degree not think the same way Edward did? Above all of that, we have the way Bella acts, and talks to him. Lets face it, without the insight knowledge of her true thoughts and feelings, she came of teenager-ish, young and hasty (not that there is anything wrong with being teenager-ish, young and hasty).

Humans are predictable, and thus at times infallible. To Edward, Bella was eccentric in that regard, yet he was right in his belief that Bella could (and would eventually) move on, and become happy. While he underestimated just how strong she was touched by him, he was ultimately right in his initial belief that Bella had the ability to move on.

Bella on the other hand, thought that she felt greater for Edward. Because she was not worth of being loved. She suffered from low self-esteem, she was self-conscious and had a horrible self-image. She was emotionally weak in that regard. She believed since she was not worthy that means that she feels much, much more for Edward than he does her. She was arrogant about it. Yet, she was only too willing to let Edward go when he *proved* her correct. She was not good enough for him. If she was emotionally strong she would have fought against that, if not for only a little while longer before she decided that if he did not want to be with her then she could do nothing about it. But she did not. She said “that changes things” and let him go.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:07 pm

Diane~ I never said I thought Edward hated humans, just that he thought himself better than many in most respects, which is true. It is also true that he is better than many in most respects. But, the problem with a superiority complex is that it blinds you to those times when someone else might be right about something...say when the love of your existence is right about being fated to be together forever and you don't agree, so you fight against everything that will allow that to happen. I too look very deeply at Edward. That we see different things just shows how complex he truly is.
amethyst wrote:
Humans are predictable, and thus at times infallible. To Edward, Bella was eccentric in that regard, yet he was right in his belief that Bella could (and would eventually) move on, and become happy. While he underestimated just how strong she was touched by him, he was ultimately right in his initial belief that Bella had the ability to move on.
I suppose this is a matter of opinion, though. I don't believe (and neither did Bella) that she would ever truly move on and be happy. She might have settled, eventually, maybe deciding to allow Jacob into her heart, and maybe it would have worked for a while. Maybe she would have stuck it out because that's what she felt was expected or what Jake deserved. But, settling and accepting second best will never give you truly happy. You might be able to fake it. You might even be able to find some new level of normal. But, in your heart, you always know that you were happier in another place, in another time and with another someone.

That is where Edward's hubris bites him in the bum. He does believe she'll move on because she's just a human afterall, and no matter how much he loves her, her human emotions can't possibly be as strong as his vampire ones, right? Wrong. Yes, Edward had a greater capacity. But that doesn't mean that she loved him any less devotedly or completely. If a bucket and a glass are placed side by side and filled with water, they are both full, aren't they? We wouldn't say that the glass is less full than the bucket just because it holds less, would we? Both Bella and Edward loved each other to their fullest capacity, as much as they were possibly capable. Because Bella had less space to fill up with love doesn't mean she was not as in love or as dedicated as Edward. But, that's honestly how Edward saw it, imo. He believed that she could move on because her human emotions were fleeting. No, Edward would never, could never change his heart about Bella. But, he believed that, because of her human emotions, Bella could change her heart about him. He underestimated the strength of her love for him because she was human. And that, imo, made it easier for him to leave. Edward says himself in Eclipse that if he had known just how effected by his loss she would have been, he wouldn't have left. I do not have my book with me so I cannot quote the passage directly.
Last edited by Jazz Girl on Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Asheleyo » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:08 pm

diane771 wrote: So to compare Edward and his thinking to a human's thinking is also superficial.
Does Edward come off like that to some? Yes or we wouldn't be having this discussion. Does that mean your opinion is right and the way I see Edward wrong? No because I look down deeper into Edward and I do not see him hating humans or acting superior at all. He is just being realistic about the differences between them. If that makes him have a superiority complex, that fine because that is your opinion. My opinion does not agree with you, so I haven't seen anything to back up your statements. I will leave with my opinion still intact.
I don't think it's superficial at all. Yes, Edward and all other vampires have the capability of thinking beyond a human scope. But Edward's problem is that his mind reading and vampire status has jaded him. So when Bella comes along, and he can't see for himself inside her head, he automatically assumes that all her human feelings are as weak and frivolous as the rest of his teenage human peers. I think that Edward may have been the last person in his family to realize that Bella was meant to be something other than human. He thought so poorly of the state of his soul because of being a vampire that he fought so hard against turning Bella, and so blinded himself to the fact that it was essentially her destiny.

Yes, Edward is superior, but he also has a superiority complex, which is a beast of a whole different color from simply being superior. Too long of seeing yourself above everyone around you will make you prejudiced, and you'll jump to conclusions of inferiority for every aspect of those around you. That is what I think Edward does, and it is the reason he underestimates Bella's love for him. He could never see her love as being on the same level as his because of his prejudice, because of his superiority complex.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by marielle » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:21 am

ok, I'll throw in the curve ball...
i totally disagree with all of you and this is why....

I believe Edward's ability to hear what people think has given him a good idea of humans in general.
Like Emmet said he becomes a bit of a know it all...
He had seen it for 8 decades over and over again time heals all wounds, even if love is pure for humans it is something to get over...
When he falls in love with Bella he decides that the best way to keep her safe is to leave, that is like the most unselfish thing he did, but he underestimated Bella... she is in her humanform almost the same like a vampire, when chance comes it is permanent...
I don't think it was superficial or arogance, he trully believed it work this way for all humans and it was not his fault that Bella was totally different....
but then again he should have guessed that Bella would react different....

My question of the day:
What do you think Edward thought when he saw Bella the first time in Voltera? I mean after he realised he wasn't death
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:17 am

marielle wrote:My question of the day:
What do you think Edward thought when he saw Bella the first time in Voltera? I mean after he realised he wasn't death
Marielle~ Hmmmmm. I so often wish for that moment, for just those pieces through Edward's eyes. Because I think the utter love would be overwhelming. First, foremost and absolutely, the relief coursing through his body had to be physically almost painful. In that moment, he believed that Bella was dead, gone to a place where he could not follow and lost from him forever. The change from complete and consuming hopelessness to utter all consuming joy must have been dizzying, even for a vampire. I think it is the one and only time since his change that Edward could literally only focus his mind and emotions on one thing, Bella is ALIVE!! But, I'm pretty sure that only lasted the space of a few seconds. I'm fairly sure the next emotion surging through him was guilt, guilt so severe it was almost crippling. He had left her, broken her (that much he knew, he just didn't know how bad it got) and yet there she was to save his worthless hide. And then, of course, there was the small matter of being in the center of Volterra and now needing not only to survive, but to protect Bella, as well. Although, I'm pretty sure Edward's guilt and self-loathing would break my heart, yes, that few moments through his eyes woudl be an irreplaceable gift.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by December » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:16 pm

Just passing by, but had to say: beautifully put, JG! I don't think you need anyone else to give you those pieces through Edward's eyes -- I think you've nailed it, eloquently.
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Re: Edward Cullen #6

Post by Jazz Girl » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:05 pm

December wrote:Just passing by, but had to say: beautifully put, JG! I don't think you need anyone else to give you those pieces through Edward's eyes -- I think you've nailed it, eloquently.

Thanks, December. I have spent a goodly amount of time the last few weeks reading a fanfic or two that covers that period of time in Edward's head. Maybe I've just built it up too much in my head, or maybe I just am too picky about words and emotions. But, even the really really good ones, the ones that, if I didn't know better I might believe to be written by a certain author with the initials SM, don't quite nail it, in my opinion. Of course, no one on earth can write Edward like SM. She's the only one he's truly present through.
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